NO2ID

Geraint

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4969312.ece

Guest · Posted: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:16:13 +0000 Post subject:

They probably haven't thought this one through. What's to stop the sale of PAYG phones at car boot sales and the like? Unless they introduced a registration scheme similar to that for road vehicles, where change of ownership had to be notified, then any database would be a waste of time; it would only lis the the person who bought the phone, not who used it. And what about standalone sim cards?

Justin · A-List Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 1736 Location: Tipperary

This idea was proposed over here last year with great fanfare. It then slowly slid beneath the waves and has not been heard of since.

Justin.
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Guest · Posted: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:25:49 +0000 Post subject:

Does this mean that buying a mobile online will not be available - has someone told all those online companies?

Guest · Posted: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:30:33 +0000 Post subject:

I do not have a mobile phone so - nah, nah der, nah, nah!

Tez Burke · Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 55

Have these clowns ever heard of eBay or car boot sales or the Exchange and Mart? Not just unworkable, but ridiculous.

JamesHammerton · E-List Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 99 Location: Glasgow

Let's suppose this goes ahead. Here's how terrorists and criminals can circumvent it:

* Use stolen phones.
* Buy phones second hand in private deals.
* Learn how to change the identity of phones and sell the service to others.
* Forge the ID required to buy the phones.

And that's before considering the options they have to communicate without using mobiles...

Meanwhile, Joe Public gets subjected to yet more surveillance.
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Guy Herbert · Moderator Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: London

you left out:

Bully, cajole or deceive others into buying a phone for you/swapping phones;
Corrupt the supply chain (much carosel fraud was said to be in trading mobile phones);
Use a foreign phone;
Clone phones;
Defraud the registration system.

There will undoubtably be other approaches.
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6079Smith.W · Posted: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 08:10:24 +0000 Post subject:

I thought I was hearing things on the Talksport News on Sunday 19th.

"You will soon have to prove who you are to buy a mobile phone. Criminals use them as they are untraceable. Ministers are also considering a database of 40 million pay-as-you-go mobile phones."

Well thanks a lot for the insult. It's just like the school teacher who puts the entire class in detention for the actions of one wrongdoer. How much more of this do we have to put up with?

Well, I'm going to rename my phone and the bluetooth device detector will reveal a rebellious message.
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Spartacan (logged out) · Guest

Guest · Posted: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:00:00 +0000 Post subject:

If there's going to be a massive black market in mobile phones we should stock up now.

capnbob · Posted: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:08:50 +0000 Post subject:

If they really insist on this route, they'll end up:
a) disconnecting all unregistered phones;
b) prohibiting ownership of more than one, without special dispensation;
c) checking of mobile phones at the border;
d) making it illegal to carry somebody else's phone.

I really can't see them doing all that without a massive backlash!
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wtwu · C-List Joined: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 696

Terrorists or Serious Organised Criminals, who are likely to be facing more than 5 years in prison anyway, are not put off from re-programming the International Mobile Equipment Identifier (IMEI) of the mobile phone handset without the written permission of the handset manufacturer (not the permission Mobile Network Operator company !)

This is very easy on many models of handset - in some cases using the syntax of a Hayes AT command, used for serial modems, to simply change the value in a memory register, via a cable etc.

See the Mobile Telephones (Re-Programming) Act 2002,

This was brought in to try to reduce the number of violent street robberies, specifically aimed at mobile phones, (without much success). Obviously the number of such muggings is likely to increase if this latest "database state" idea is implemented.

By how much will Credit Card fraud increase, when a dodgy mobile phone shop, gets physical access access not only to your Credit Card, but also to your Passport or ID Card , and copies or clones it, during a mobile phone purchase ?

What are the names of the individual control freaks, who are pushing this agenda to try to create Yet Another National Database of Names and Addresses of Millions of Innocent People, which will be lost, copied, stolen, sold or illegally accessed, in the usual way by this Government and its private sector contractors ?

Are they Labour party politicians, or appartachik special advisors or are they civil servants or commercial lobbyists ?
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Guest · Posted: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:20:11 +0000 Post subject:

Archrights · Guest

My son borrowed my mobile last night. I've just asked why it's out of credit this morning, and he says he let a couple of his friends use it to tell their parents when they'd be home. Damn nuisance because I now have to borrow my husband's phone, but all pretty routine (and all in the service of child protection, of course).

Guest · Posted: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:15:09 +0000 Post subject:

This idea has been brought up before in Parliament and dismissed for various reasons:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-07-16b.4.3&s=%22pay+as+you+go%22+mobile+phones

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-04-18d.62738.h&s=%22pay+as+you+go%22#g62738.q0

Personally I can't see this going anwhere.

P.S. I also find the section in the second link about immobilise.com interesting. The website pens itself off as a way for people to register their property so that it can be returned if stolen and recovered, but Alun Michael seems to suggest that it is being used to build a voluntary database of the owners of PAYG phones.

uksceptic · Guest

Perhaps someone will ask the Home Office how many times Post Office counter staff have accepted as genuine a UK passport, when applying for a Driving Licence, handed it back and later DVLA discover the passport does not relate to the applicant?

Extend that to the banks and other financial institutions.

Now if this proposal became law, how would phone retailers cope? Would I trust a phone retailer with my passport? No. Will they note the number, or take a copy of the passport?

Crazy proposal and this supposed to help law enforcement?

Justin · A-List Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 1736 Location: Tipperary

BTW, I see it's to "combat terrorism" of course, what else? Well over here it was drugs and gun crime, there's always an excuse.

Justin.
_________________
I am his highness' dog at Kew;
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you? Pope.

FishNChipPapers · Moderator Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1816

stu2630 · Posted: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:02:41 +0000 Post subject:

I bought my last mobile from this firm:
\
http://telia.dk/

What's to stop any of us buying or even ordering mobile phones from abroad?

Stu

ukliberty · D-List Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 375

capnbob · Posted: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:39:14 +0000 Post subject:

Doctor_Wibble · Moderator Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 2536

stu2630 · Posted: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:08:47 +0000 Post subject:

Rob

FishNChipPapers · Moderator Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1816