NO2ID

Over the last 24 hours I have had positive responses from councillors, an MP and a local paper with a huge distribution.

Once John Steinbeck was taking a writing class and he said in his opening gambit,

"What are you all doing here; you should be at home writing!"

I suggest we do the same. We seem to be on the crest of a tsunami at preent: don't be guilty of just checking this site every once in a while to see how the fight is going, write the letters, contact the MPs. Let us kill this thing dead NOW.

Good luck!

Hear, hear.

Hence "sticky".

Working on this forum (it is not a leisure activity) takes less than 5% of my NO2ID time. We all need to focus outwards, towards getting other people to understand the danger of the database state.

Just an update.

After positive results from the councillors I've contacted I have received a message of support and a confirmation of their action in support from MP. It took/could take a week (I hope because their inboxes will be a lot busier then councillors'). I have, to remain polite, asked if I can post their brief but supportive message on here to encourage others to do the same simple lobbying that I have done. But the wheels are in motion and hopefully a positive result (fingers crossed pressworthy too) will soon ensue.

edited to remove campaigning advice which can be found, funnily enough, in campaigning advice

Letter in local paper - Bridport News

At a recent meeting in Bridport, Mrs Norma Lane, the director of urgent care and clinical services for the South Western Ambulance NHS Trust, stated that:

‘All calls - 999, NHS Direct, patient transport service and the out-of-hours service went to a control room - now called a clinical hub - in St Leonard's (Exeter) where there were 80 workstations. The technology was amazing and it was well on its way to the Holy Grail' of full electronic patient records, she said. Special patients - like cancer sufferers - were flagged up on screen ……’

I was going to ask, ‘When did ‘full electronic patient records’ become a ‘holy grail’ for anyone other than a bureaucratic control freak?’ and ‘How do call centre staff (who presumably aren’t vetted or qualified) give a satisfactory service, not being aware of the geography of the area they are sending ambulances and patient transport providers to or trained to assess the precise relevance of seemingly unconnected medical symptoms on ‘special patients’?’

And more importantly, ‘How secure are the electronic records likely to be, given that 80 workstations are manned 24/7, so the number of staff with access to the information is considerably more than that?’

But the latest Government data-loss fiasco, when the private (ha!) records of 25 million people have been ‘lost in the post’ just left me speechless!
This Government is in the process of instigating a National Identity Register, backed by the ID card, which will record an unprecedented list of facts and figures about YOU. Arguments against the proposed NIR system on privacy grounds have always been met with the Government response that "your personal information is safe in our hands". This is now revealed to be completely untrue.

No system is ever more secure than its weakest link - it does not matter how secure the technology is, it is only as effective as the people who look after the information.

Please, everybody, don’t sleepwalk into this – fight the ID card and the NIR NOW. See www.no2id.net for further details.

Signed – one of the 25 million.

Just a reminder (or a nudge) to other "Yes I think think lobbying councils is a good idea but.." people.

OK. We didn't quite get the two weekend impetus, but it is still not too late to engage both (thanks Phil) your councillors, whatever their persuasion, or your MPs to support a motion against ID cards and the NIR in your locality. Please don't think somebody else will do it just because they might be thinking the same way as you.

Trust me, a few emails to your representatives will not result in unmarked vans outside the house!

Just remember we are part of a fight that is helping to preserve the rights you have now. And those rights include writing now to papers, MPs and councillors to fire them up to join (y)our fight to stop this in its tracks.

Don't rely on events, create them!

Keep up the pressure, keep the fire of recent data disasters alive and... keep the faith.

I hope this is not too evangelical for people's tastes. But less of the stick, more of the carrot; I cannot describe the thrill of having your letter printed in the paper nor can I express the feeling of getting an MP or councillor on board... but it is a bloody good feeling. Trouble is, of course, that is only the first step of many; these guys have got many distractions so don't be afraid to constantly remind them of how important this issue is; after all you won't look stupid, but passionate.

MODS feel free to move to Campaigning Advice

I have been very remiss.

Leeds City Council called an Extraordinary meeting on the 12th December 2007 in which it was resolved that

" this Council does not support Labour’s proposals to introduce national identity cards, and calls for the withdrawal of the scheme immediately , and for the money saved to be used to provide more front line resources to combat crime."

Votes: Yes 51
No: 0
Abstain 37

Here are the relevant minutes..
http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/ieListDocuments.asp?MId=3265&J=1

and here is the White Paper motion

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000111/M00003265/$$$Agenda.doc.pdf

Sorry not to have reported this earlier.

But the point is it can be done and from email to resolution took only 18 days!

Well done!

Hello!

I had heard a little about this ID scheme, but I had no idea how bad it was until I read this site and the links after being tipped off by a friend. I was worried before but now I am horrified. I don't hear much about this sort of thing on TV or in the newspapers.

I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this but I want to say I am hoping for the best, I think you are doing great work and have donated to your cause to show support. Please don't give up. There are a lot of people counting on you all and many don't even realise it. It's great to see someone out there fighting for us.

Yours,

Anonymous

Hi,

I only just found out about that Leeds City council motion! Slipped under my radar too.

Your right that we should be outwardly focused, but that page with all the latest news stories is a great tool. So is the events page.

waste of time in my opinion, name one thing that was opposed by a large number of people that was stopped by a petition in the last 5 years that was at the centrepiece of government strategy?

The Iraq war peace march - 4 MILLION people marched - petitions with 700,000 names on them sent in. The morons still went ahead. Sorry but all this sweet talk is a dream much like the Lib dem leader dreaming about taking power - AINT GONNA HAPPEN !
so wouldnt it be best to start raising money to build a strategy and campaign of civil disobedience?

Whilst I support your endeavours England is no longer a democratic country. As a previous poster noted, matching to stop the war= government knows best.

Been a long time opponent of the ID register but only just joined this site. Personally think edcuation, education, education is the best way to spread the message. Recent announcement by Jacqui Smith is a perfect catalyst.

Great thread going on another forum here: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ ... opic=88653

All helps to spread the news and public sentiment is very much against.

Quite. The function of the NO2ID petition is more subtle. We are not aiming to persuade the government. We know that begging doesn't work. We are trying to persuade the people: our petition is a reason to talk to new people about the scheme and get them to hear the full story.

Which is why there is no online petition any more. Someone who signs an online petition is already aware of the scheme and has sought a means of expressing their opposition. That might easily be the end of the matter. The point is to grow opposition and awareness.

If you are against the ID scheme, I want you to tell other people who don't know, or who just haven't thought about it, and persuade them. Asking them to sign a paper petition is just one way of starting that conversation.

Get your copy here:
http://www.no2id.net/downloads/forms/NO2IDpetition.pdf
Once you have persuaded a few people, send it to NO2ID's office and we will not only have an impressively growing stack of paper evidence of people's opposition, but we will send everyone a reinforcement in the shape of that campaign newsletter (if they give an email for the purpose) a "supporter back" that explains a little more about the scheme and encourages them to join NO2ID.

Making and displaying the NO2ID pledge is another way of engaging people.
http://www.no2id.net/pledge/
Don't send that to us. Again, getting new people aware of the threat is the point. Display it somewhere prominent, and a talk to people who ask about it.

That's what the pledge means by

"I also promise by my example to encourage others to do the same.”

It is the most important line. Even if you are forced to break your own pledge, if you have already persuaded only one other person to resist then resistance will continue. If you have persuaded two people, then it will continue to grow.

NO2ID is raising money - please send us some:
http://www.no2id.net/getInvolved/donate.php

And it is trying to build a national network - please join or form a local group:
http://www.no2id.net/localGroups/

But the point of doing either is to help educate the public and make a platform for resistance. The Home Office is playing a long strategic game. So are we.

AT LAST! A sensible person (no offence to other posters here by the way) but they WILL NOT LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE, it is TIME TO DO THIS.

I had been involved (albeit on the sidelines) in the NO2ID cause for quite some time when I tipped off the LSE regarding the ad hominem attacks by ministers upon one of the authors of that report. I was asked to remain quiet, even in nudging NO2ID, about the whole affair for a matter of hours.

I believe it almost always serves one well to wait to deliver a telling blow.

Now, I know I began this thread with the title "The Iron Is Hot!" and at the time I believe it was apposite; perhaps not fully entertained or acted upon by the many who could and in that lack of observance many a fire was raked over and then slowly rekindled- as many on these forums have hinted at- it takes just one beacon to sputter on the spine of england for the fires to go out altogether.
That does leave us with many glowing embers and no conflagration but you can cook a rabbit just as well in embers as in a furnace. The councillors that have opposed this motion are looking drawn, their consciousness may just (just) have expanded to encompass the real fears and complaints of their (and lets remember this) immediate constituents.

The iron was hot only to forge the cold hard steel of our resolve and now that the "knee jerk" giddiness of the original incident has passed; indeed these calamities are as common as buses; it is time again to reinforce the message of NO2ID at the grass roots level.

Councillors, be ready.

We are about to visit you again.

I've had an ID card for nearly 30 years, it's loaded with the usual DoB, NIN, Address etc etc. It's been very useful and as I'm a law abbiding innocent member of the general public, it's never been a problem and, i've always produced it when asked. It's also my responsibility to keep it updated which isn't too difficult. But then, I'm a British Soldier. Sorry fella's, don't see what the problem is, unles you have something to hide? PS My wife is German and they've had them for years, no probs there either!

Interesting that you didn't register using your real name atthesharpend: one would think you had something to hide.

Would you be happy to publish the information on your ID card on the forum?

What has it been useful for and who has asking for it?

Would you be happy if the information about when, where and why you presented it was recorded centrally and accessible to all sorts of people?

Would you be comfortable with all of the information held on your card to be stored in a database managed by the government given the history of data losses?

Do you face a £1000 if you don't update the details?

Your wife may also tell you that a central register such as the UK's planned National Identity Register would be illegal in Germany. I hope she doesn't have to explain why.

Hi F&C
I'll be more than happy to tell you who i am if you can prove you are a police officer or the like. One night walking home from the pub i was stopped by police in a car, they said i matched description of person leaving a crime scene. without being asked i produced my ID card and after a couple of question they offered me a lift home. nice chaps and it was obvious i wasn't the bloke they were looking for. Not running away helps a lot too when pleading innocence!! C'mon, how difficult is it to update a card? If i lose mine then the fine could be a £1000 if it's lost in the 'wrong' place. Rule one, keep your card secure, for the average chap on the street how difficult can that be?
Does your driving licence have your name on it, your credit and debit card. how often have you had to produce a utility bill when taking out a libary subscription or agreement to buy a washing machine. I'm afraid there are are no 'John Conner's' out there, the system knows who you are.
I would prefere an ID card because utility bill can be easily forged on a PC and I have seen loads of WWW site selling convincing driving lic.
I will grant you one good point though, how secure will they be against forgery? my car number plates have been cloned and once again, i was stopped by police. I offered my ID and following a quick check on the computer they found they had the wrong chap, apologised for the delay and i went on my merry way. At least they are doing something.

Why only a police office or the like? Surely if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to hide. Also, I would like to know how far "the like" extends beyond a police officer? Council worker? Swimming pool attendant? Librarian?

And what role did them knowing your identity play in that? How did them knowing your name and other details persuade them that you weren't the bloke they were looking for. Did they know his name? Where he lived?

I am not suggesting it's difficult: I am questioning why it is necessary at all. I don't have to notify the passport office when my address changes. Do I take by your answer that you don't face a £1000 fine for not updating your ID. Keeping your card secure has nothing to do with being forced to notify the government every time information changes.

Yes and yes. What's your point?

So what makes ID cards so special - particularly as the government has admitted that there are no terminals to verify the cards.

It's not about security against forgery of the card. It's the security of the database as the centre. It doesn't matter whether or not the card is secure if someone breaks into the database - or some civil servant or contractor leaves the data around somewhere on an unencrypted memory stick.

Also, would you be happy if the information about when, where and why you presented it was recorded centrally and accessible to all sorts of people?

Whilst the system may know who I am, it increasingly doesn't know my date of birth. I'm up to three different dates of birth now, all of which came from the same document; my birth certificate. If they can't be arsed to correctly transcribe data (and no, it wasn't in any way "unclear" as an ordinal was used on the number) I can't be arsed to repeatedly try and get them to update their records.

Upshot: the system doesn't really know who I am as part of my "identity" is my birthdate.