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Andrew Watson
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 Posted: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:43:19 +0000 Post subject: NO2ID London Mayoral Hustings, 8th April |
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Tuesday, 8th April 7pm at Friends House, 173 Euston Road NW1 2BJ.
NO2ID is holding hustings among the candidates for Mayor of London to discover their positions on The Database State. How do candidates feel about the civil liberties and privacy implications of, among other things, the Oyster Card, congestion charging, telephone parking? Would they support or oppose national ID schemes as mayor? What is their attitude to the database state?
Prospective candidates Gerrard Batten (UKIP), Sian Berry (Green), Lindsay German (Respect), Boris Johnson (Conservative), and Brian Paddick (LibDem) have indicated interest in participating already. |
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Guy Herbert
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:21:34 +0000 Post subject: |
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Of events, certainly, but we can't rearrange our date at no notice.
It has been quite difficult to put it together inside 6 weeks anyway, what with a volunteer crew and no money.
Most candidates have promised to attend our event, though Mr Johnson has already notified us he may have to leave promptly in order to do a TV engagement - and Newsnight is probably the one he means therefore.
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davegould
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| Posted: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:08:16 +0000 Post subject: |
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| Guy Herbert wrote: | | ...though Mr Johnson has already notified us... |
We have a 'swear jar' too? Seriously though, it's quite a coup just getting them all to turn up. Hope we have our own cameras there.
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Harlequin
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| Posted: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:49:47 +0000 Post subject: |
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| davegould wrote: | | Guy Herbert wrote: | | ...though Mr Johnson has already notified us... |
We have a 'swear jar' too? Seriously though, it's quite a coup just getting them all to turn up. Hope we have our own cameras there. |
What exactly are we allowe to ask these candidates without fear of arrest or getting kicked out of the venue? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:17:20 +0000 Post subject: |
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| I hardly think it coincidental that a more high profile TV event has been 'arranged' to clash with the No2ID debate. It looks like Ken Livingstone didn't want to discuss the database state publically; it's too soft a target. |
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DVNT
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 08:59:52 +0000 Post subject: |
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Hello.
Have any candidates confirmed attendance?
Bit shit on the clash. Planned?  |
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Baron von Lotsov.
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| Posted: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:43:16 +0000 Post subject: |
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I would say at least the UKIP should be good allies. They are very much against ID cards and I do chat with one or two of their active politicians and they don't sit about either. They would be able to put up some strong arguments.
Gerrard Batten MEP, the candidate for the Mayor says:
"Abolish the Congestion Charge and Emission Charging" as one of the campaign items.
ID cards don't so much feature in it as they haven't happened yet, whereas congestion charging/ANPR is already happening.
However there is a link on his site about it here.
http://www.batten4londonmayor.com/docs/idcards.pdf
In other words they mean business when talking ID cards. They have the message loud and clear.
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Carpe Noctum
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| Posted: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:00:45 +0000 Post subject: |
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Yay. Word up, DVNT. Glad you joined us eventually  .
(Mike). |
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Walking the talk
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| Posted: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:02:07 +0000 Post subject: |
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| Baron von Lotsov. wrote: | http://www.batten4londonmayor.com/docs/idcards.pdf
In other words they mean business when talking ID cards. They have the message loud and clear. |
Hmm, that document is from 2005 and begins "If it becomes law, the Labour Government's Bill to introduce Identity Cards will ...". I would expect something a bit more up to date from someone who means business when talking ID cards. |
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DVNT
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:55:41 +0000 Post subject: |
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| Any update on tonight? |
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Ian Whickham
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| Posted: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:39:09 +0000 Post subject: |
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Post up on my blog (photo from event & caption) here.
* It's IanWhickham, the guy who used to blog at SELECT Privacy - I've forgotten my password for the NO2ID forums though. |
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Andrew Watson
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| Posted: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:25:51 +0000 Post subject: |
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| Ian Whickham wrote: | | Post up on my blog (photo from event & caption) here. |
Great photo - anxious to hear what was said! Will someone please post a summary? Thanks!
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Geraint
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Baron von Lotsov.
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| Posted: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:07:49 +0000 Post subject: |
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| Walking the talk wrote: | | Baron von Lotsov. wrote: | http://www.batten4londonmayor.com/docs/idcards.pdf
In other words they mean business when talking ID cards. They have the message loud and clear. |
Hmm, that document is from 2005 and begins "If it becomes law, the Labour Government's Bill to introduce Identity Cards will ...". I would expect something a bit more up to date from someone who means business when talking ID cards. |
The longer ago the time it was published the more ahead of time they were at the time. This especially goes for documents that have panned out as predicted. But I know for a fact the UKIP is very serious indeed about ID cards and they have been for a long time. So I think it probably does them more justice than a politician who is opportunistic and jumps on the bandwagon only when the majority are against. The really tough people speak out their mind even when everyone else in the room is not. Also to their credit the Liberal Democrats were there at the beginning.
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Baron von Lotsov.
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| Posted: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:54:16 +0000 Post subject: |
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OK I did some checking on Boris' site. Not such good news regarding ID and people tracking technologies. Nothing but crime on the front page so I had to dig into it to look for something about congestion charging and the ANPR system. This is the closest I got.
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The Congestion Charge must be reformed. Congestion has now risen above pre-Congestion Charge levels. Ken Livingstone's £25 levy will not improve congestion or emissions and will hit families and small businesses - it is a stick with which to beat motorists which is why I will not introduce it. |
So it's too expensive in other words.
Next up the Oyster Card.
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I will fight for London's rail commuters and campaign for longer trains, more frequent services and Oyster at all stations. |
Does he not know about what the Oyster Card is for? They are already talking about handing out Londoner's travel history to various agencies. This is important since Boris might actually win and he would certainly be my choice over Ken, who I know is the real enemy of our electronic privacy, someone who is not unknown for pushing controversial moves against the public.
http://www.backboris.com/policy/transport/index.php
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zorrodp
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| Posted: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:32:33 +0000 Post subject: |
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The Congestion Charge must be reformed. Congestion has now risen above pre-Congestion Charge levels. Ken Livingstone's £25 levy will not improve congestion or emissions and will hit families and small businesses - it is a stick with which to beat motorists which is why I will not introduce it. |
So it's too expensive in other words.
<snip>
No - it's not expensive _enough_ to hit seriously the people and volumes of vehicles that it needs to to make any real impact - the higher earners, company cars, limos etc., yet at current levels it seriously affects the lower middle income levels, and small businesses. Coupled with the impact of controlled parking zones, and penal parking charges, and slower buses, and overcrowded underground ..... Boris has a number of persuasive points. Under Ken's Low Emission Zone pollution levels (of key components like PM10s) will rise and keep rising possibly falling posy 2010 plus.
Next up the Oyster Card.
| Quote: |
I will fight for London's rail commuters and campaign for longer trains, more frequent services and Oyster at all stations. |
Does he not know about what the Oyster Card is for? They are already talking about handing out Londoner's travel history to various agencies. This is important since Boris might actually win and he would certainly be my choice over Ken, who I know is the real enemy of our electronic privacy, someone who is not unknown for pushing controversial moves against the public.
http://www.backboris.com/policy/transport/index.php[/quote]
He knows, and was quite clear about not allowing TfL to provide any information except for the investigation of serious crime - and that would have to be well-founded requests, not just fishing trips or n the whim of the Met.
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Baron von Lotsov.
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| Posted: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:51:20 +0000 Post subject: |
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Ah but these things are papering over the cracks though. In my local this week a group of school children went to visit Checkpoint Charlie and oddly their comment was they were surprised to see how well the city's traffic was running, even in rush hour.
When you have a government that believes in the ideology of centralisation you are always going to get problems at the centre. London is the centre and it is chocked, not by people who are selfish enough to use their cars but by government policy. Out here in the South West where it is not in the centre it is becoming a deprived area because all the money and commerce is 150 miles away. It's not the most efficient system but there is a trade off between efficiency and control. The fewer people making the decisions the worse those decisions will be.
Everything in this country is being centralised, local offices get shut down and super huge regional ones take their place. Boris needs to have a think about this, but it might not be politically prudent to say to Londoners the solution is to move central offices and money out of London. (Until they can't breath anymore maybe.)
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zorrodp
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| Posted: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:40:46 +0000 Post subject: |
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| Baron von Lotsov. wrote: | Ah but these things are papering over the cracks though. In my local this week a group of school children went to visit Checkpoint Charlie and oddly their comment was they were surprised to see how well the city's traffic was running, even in rush hour.
When you have a government that believes in the ideology of centralisation you are always going to get problems at the centre. London is the centre and it is chocked, not by people who are selfish enough to use their cars but by government policy. Out here in the South West where it is not in the centre it is becoming a deprived area because all the money and commerce is 150 miles away. It's not the most efficient system but there is a trade off between efficiency and control. The fewer people making the decisions the worse those decisions will be.
Everything in this country is being centralised, local offices get shut down and super huge regional ones take their place. Boris needs to have a think about this, but it might not be politically prudent to say to Londoners the solution is to move central offices and money out of London. (Until they can't breath anymore maybe.) |
Ken, and Crossrail, are alternatively promising that there will be yet more jobs etc in Central London.
Quite crazy, but some 30K additional workers are anticipated to be pouring out of Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road stations to employment in the near vicinity - presumably in the large tower blocks to be built on lands adjacent (and free having been cleared to permit building Crossrail etc) that will be sold and/or leased to help pay for Crossrail.
The balance of the additional numbers are said to be transients, passing to and from the City, Isle of Dogs, and Heathrow, passengers that othewise would have crowded on the existing Central Line, and passengers changing to/from other lines north/south or east/west.
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Qjimbo
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| Posted: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:40:53 +0000 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Quote: |
I will fight for London's rail commuters and campaign for longer trains, more frequent services and Oyster at all stations. |
Does he not know about what the Oyster Card is for? They are already talking about handing out Londoner's travel history to various agencies. |
Just get an anonymous one and pay the £3 deposit! Though I think if you want to put a Season Travelcard on your oyster you do have to register, but if they're at all stations then they'd probably allow you to use the trains PAYG. |
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Baron von Lotsov.
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| Posted: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:00:45 +0000 Post subject: |
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| zorrodp wrote: | | Baron von Lotsov. wrote: | Ah but these things are papering over the cracks though. In my local this week a group of school children went to visit Checkpoint Charlie and oddly their comment was they were surprised to see how well the city's traffic was running, even in rush hour.
When you have a government that believes in the ideology of centralisation you are always going to get problems at the centre. London is the centre and it is chocked, not by people who are selfish enough to use their cars but by government policy. Out here in the South West where it is not in the centre it is becoming a deprived area because all the money and commerce is 150 miles away. It's not the most efficient system but there is a trade off between efficiency and control. The fewer people making the decisions the worse those decisions will be.
Everything in this country is being centralised, local offices get shut down and super huge regional ones take their place. Boris needs to have a think about this, but it might not be politically prudent to say to Londoners the solution is to move central offices and money out of London. (Until they can't breath anymore maybe.) |
Ken, and Crossrail, are alternatively promising that there will be yet more jobs etc in Central London.
Quite crazy, but some 30K additional workers are anticipated to be pouring out of Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road stations to employment in the near vicinity - presumably in the large tower blocks to be built on lands adjacent (and free having been cleared to permit building Crossrail etc) that will be sold and/or leased to help pay for Crossrail.
The balance of the additional numbers are said to be transients, passing to and from the City, Isle of Dogs, and Heathrow, passengers that othewise would have crowded on the existing Central Line, and passengers changing to/from other lines north/south or east/west. |
You would have thought in the age where a lot of jobs are office jobs that just need a chair and a computer screen that there is no reason for so many people to be crammed in one place. It's such a blatantly obvious point that no one notices it. As for Ken's surveillance charging you can take a look for yourself to see how great that idea is for something that it was never really designed for.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23479069-details/C-charge+has+not+cut+jams%2C+admits+TfL+chief/article.do
If someone has to use a car each day to earn their living they will use it no matter how much you tax them until it becomes uneconomic to do the job. It's not a luxury item and therefore in economic terms it has a fixed demand with little variance on price.
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