|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
|
Page 1 of 1
|
[ 17 posts ] |
|
| Author |
Message |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Picturing the setup - IPS/gov info sharing diagram Posted: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:07:59 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
I've been trying to get a picture of how the whole IPS 'identity' thing fits with various departments/organisations/systems, and I couldn't find a handy visualisation for this. Pencils and flipchart to the rescue...
[ Edit: old versions de-linked - latest version is cleaner, less heavy on toner, with notes etc ]
[ Edit2 : the IPS Chart Decoder page will always link to the latest version ]
The thinking went like this:
Currently the departments would only generally have (numbers as per Schedule 1) name/gender/address (1a, 1e, 1f) and signature (2b). Some also have NI number (4c) and/or mugshot (2a), and some have nationality (3a). They would have their own records (or not) of 'customer history' (change of name/address etc).
Departments/systems would talk to the IPS to verify these details - or perhaps to get them in the first instance because people apparently can't fill in forms.
BAA is in there because they have that miSense thing, as well as being the 'host' of (at least part of?) Project IRIS.
'HMPF' is Her Majesty's Police Force (couldn't remember if there was another/proper abbreviation, sorry).
[ old version de-linked to avoid confusion ]
And a second one that covers what happens with the combined border policing force ("BPF" even though the police seem to have been excluded from it)
=> [ old version de-linked to avoid confusion ] grouped departments for border enforcement and the dotted-line is for the stage after that when someone has the bright idea that since they are doing related identity things why not join them up...
So how far off the mark is this? Does it even make sense? Aside from the colour scheme  is anything *wrong* on there, and/or have I missed anything major? Or is this a reasonable approximation (it is supposed to be a bit simplistic) and even (getting *really* optimistic here) helpful to anyone? The flipchart-o-vision original has notes on it which could be added, explanations also available!
(apols it there is already something like this - I didnt see it, and/or memory failed...)
Last edited by Doctor_Wibble on Thu, 09 Aug 2007 08:45:50 +0000, edited 6 times in total.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
capnbob
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:32:56 +0000 |
|
 |
| A-List |
 |
Joined: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 12:05:45 +0000 Posts: 1654 Location: Shrewsbury
|
Dr W wrote: BAA is in there because they have that miSense thing, as well as being the 'host' of (at least part of?) Project IRIS.
Small aside... came through Heathrow T4 on Sunday and IRIS was down. This is normal, I gather?
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:29:27 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
|
A quick rummage and an addition (both pics updated) - I hadn't added a direct link from the FCO to the IPS (as opposed to indirectly via the BIA) for PVS via OmniBase, used when issuing passports overseas - the other (officially listed) government users being CRB, DWP, HMRC and DVLA.
I'm not sure about the reliability of the IRIS system - though one would hope that it has improved since the trials...
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 00:14:54 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
[ Edit : see a couple of posts down, the 'updated chart' one with clearer annotations ]
The actual flipchart diagram drawn (third attempt...) was => [ old, only left for reference ] chart on wall complete with schedule-1-annotated links (I moved the DfT around since then) which looks far more palatable and may even be clearer as to what it's supposed to show.
Useful to have something to point at when trying to explain the IPS-identity thing to people - plus if it's stuck on the wall, people even give you the lead-in of "ooh is that the...?". Also much easier to scribble on extra bits if someone says "what about...?".
Last edited by Doctor_Wibble on Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:57:50 +0000, edited 2 times in total.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
FishNChipPapers
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 07:20:22 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:56:11 +0000 Posts: 1948
|
It seems to me, based on this response from James Hall in the File On 4 programme that you are probably further ahead in your thinking than most of government:
Quote: Hall, ~19.5 mins: "It will happen many times, as part of the natural process of them overhauling and enhancing their systems anyway, that's the way that they would logically plan to do it, in part of the recycle and refresh of their long-term technology."
R4: "That's another way of saying there's no hard and fast figures, the work simply hasn't been done yet."
Hall: "Well we would quite willingly admit that we have not yet, and the government not yet produced costs for every single department because I think it's something that the departments have got to do in due time when it'sappropriate for *them*."
Similar issues were highlighted by Peter Tomlinson, Unisys' identity management lead in the UK, the Science and Technology Committee report.
Explains why you couldn't find a handy visualisation!
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: updated chart Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:21:36 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
FishNChipPapers wrote: ... you are probably further ahead in your thinking than most of government
I'm not so sure - some of the thinking was inspired by e.g. the CIP and some of the transformational government stuff - none of what's on the chart is what I would categorise as "new ideas". The fact that nobody's bothered doing any costings shouldn't be taken as an 'all clear'...
[ Edit : see "new new improved super-super version" a couple of posts below ]
[ already superceded ] updated version => with clearer annotations, also noting which departments are currently using PVS. The BIA-to-FCO link is the e-borders thing, roughly the same items involved as the BIA-to-IPS talking (though probably more).
Last edited by Doctor_Wibble on Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:58:59 +0000, edited 2 times in total.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
FishNChipPapers
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:34:49 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:56:11 +0000 Posts: 1948
|
|
It seems to me that whilst it's possible to piece together what the IPS system looks like, what government is lacking is a system-wide, holistic view of how the NIR will be used across government.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:13:07 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
FishNChipPapers wrote: It seems to me that whilst it's possible to piece together what the IPS system looks like, what government is lacking is a system-wide, holistic view of how the NIR will be used across government.
Quite - I was working from what was basically a compiled government wish-list, i.e. many of the publicly-stated assertions, together with some of the published plans.
I haven't even tried to address the 'intermediate' issues on this - i.e. all the stuff the gov haven't done yet that sits between high-level fluffy clouds at one end and shiny whizzy technology at the other - simply because I didn't need to in order to get the message across. The 'picture is a thousand words' definitely helps reduce the eyes-glazing-over quotient!
Of course the need for the visual aid might simply be a reflection of my 'explanational capabilities'...
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
FishNChipPapers
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:22:05 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:56:11 +0000 Posts: 1948
|
|
The other benefit of a picture is that it highlights the magnitude of the challenge that government faces in trying to implement this (particularly when you add in the non-governmental parties that will have access too!).
I think this has the making of a powerful tool e.g. one could map public sector IT failures within each of departments/organisations which would serve to highlight the risks of failure inherent in a system of this scale
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 15:05:02 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
And the new new improved super-super version
=> Edit: Linked from the IPS Chart Decoder page.
exported from an openoffice.org drawing (i.e. sensibly editable), and even turns out OK on a black-and-white printer!
It's not perfect by any means, and it could probably do with the addition of a key for all the abbreviations. [ done ]
Last edited by Doctor_Wibble on Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:57:25 +0000, edited 2 times in total.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Geraint
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:12:35 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:56:20 +0000 Posts: 5209 Location: Glasgow
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:31:24 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
Geraint wrote: Link from MoJ to IPS? CORE (Co-ordinated Online Record of Electors)
The electoral roll itself *had* crossed my mind, I hadn't included it because (AIUI) it's an unadorned list of names and addresses, but CORE has now been added. So I'll take a "D'oh!" on that one.
And an "argh" because there should be a link between DVLA and CRB (now added) but this is Bad because it means a crossed line (shock horror).
And an extra "argh" because I missed the one between HMPF and CRB...
Also added TfL because that's being assimilated into the 'trawling zone' but that's getting just a tad borderline wrt the 'limit' of what's relevant to the IPS setup.
Now updated and version-numbered... kind of...
=> cleaner, less heavy on the toner, with notes etc [ Edit : Linked from the IPS Chart Decoder page ]
Last edited by Doctor_Wibble on Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:59:34 +0000, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 08:51:02 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
And to go with this is a list of the abbreviations for anyone who doesn't live in a world of alphabet soup...
IPS Chart Decoder
[ Apologies for repeated links of this - just trying to make sure the old stuff is properly 'gone' ]
And a posting in Arts-n-Pubs has me wondering if I should add a generic Blob for "Banks etc" - as PVS user, checks wrt some of the KYC guidelines(?), tax etc reporting, the "Banks etc" to include credit/reference/loan companies, also because the IPS will be using them for the background checks.
Edit: "Banks" blob now added, current diagram version linked from the 'decoder' page.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:53:20 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
Having looked through some of the stuff about eBorders (is the RIA paper available yet?) I think that the 'eBorders' label should in fact be a Blob in its own right. A very big one with lots of links - as many as the IPS  all of which (as I understand it) would be needed for the government wish-list to work.
So there's now a De Luxe eBorders edition as well (linked from the aforementioned Chart Decoder page pointed at in previous posts), but since it's based (to an extent) on speculation, I'll keep the two versions separate. Plus both of these are now much lighter, ink-wise, and I've uploaded PDF versions (i.e. scalable for larger printing) - to get these go to the chart you are after and change the '.png' for '.pdf'.
And this time no apologies for the colour scheme
Is the non-eBorders version now in a fit state to add to the 'joining the dots' thread in Data Sharing?
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:22:55 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
I've added a 'container' page which also points at the 'decoder' and an 'eBorders' container page.
All three link to one another, and the two diagram pages will always load the latest versions. Any linking should be done to the appropriate page, not the graphic since version numbers are subject to change.
I don't anticipate much in the way of substantial changes to the diagrams for the time being, even after reading the prospectus - which if anything seemed to give more weight to some of my speculative links on the e-borders version than I might have expected, though some of these are still subject to confirmation.
There is scope for a super-extended edition which includes several other departments but I'm not sure how much this would actually add to the illustration of the nature of the IPS-centred database state.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doctor_Wibble
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:34:17 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:02:46 +0000 Posts: 2850
|
|
I've made some layout adjustments (and uploaded the new version) caused by a necesary distinction between credit reference agencies and banks that I hadn't made - it makes a little more sense given the nature and 'direction' of the links between IPS, CredRef and Banks.
Plus - not uploaded yet, but I've now converted this into SVG rather than using an image-map (complexity=>insanity) - in theory supported by all popular browsers (firefox/mozilla built-in, MSIE support via a plugin which I think is there by default?) so each connection (and departmental blob) can be clicked to bring up a description of what it is, what it's for, associated IT failures perhaps, and maybe some pointers to 'proper' references for in-depth information.
Turning into a sort of visual index, or 'explore the database state' thing, better I think than a flat diagram. I'm still operating on the basis that we don't already have one of these - I assume that situation hasn't changed?
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Geraint
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:00:41 +0000 |
|
 |
| Moderator |
Joined: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:56:20 +0000 Posts: 5209 Location: Glasgow
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Page 1 of 1
|
[ 17 posts ] |
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
|
|