NO2ID

I am quite dismayed at the general introduction of the ID scheme. No doubt you are aware phase I of the implementation means that all foreigners who apply for work permits go onto the database. Phase II brings in the citizens.

Is there anything we can do to delay this to all people in the country at once? The home office is forever messing foreigners around from exorbitant fees to changing the rules under our feet to this. Mostly they do it because they knwo we will not complain as a lot of us feel intimidated and are fearful of being kicked out.

But I've had enough. One of the main reasons I chose to work in Britain was due to the infringing personal liberties in the US. I want to make a stand. But I don't know how to.

Legally, your options are more limited than the rest of us.

[Item moved to general questions from legal.]

However, there is a great deal you can do, and we are very pleased to hear from you. You can of course support the campaign like any other resident, with money and help - but most important, you are in an ideal position to spread the word to other expatriates in the UK.

Britain's tax revenues in the wealthy South-East and London in particularly, is highly dependent on foreign workers and residents. Not the lowly paid cleaners people mistakenly stereotype immigrant workers as, but highly skilled and very highly paid City workers (accountants, bankers, lawyers, insurance and shipping executives, traders), plus jetsetting residents with either inherited or entrepreneurial millions. The latter don't pay a lot of tax directly, but their spending contributes billions to the revenue through staff PAYE and the sale of luxury goods and services.

None of those rich and talented are forced to come here. They do so because of the advantages Britain gives them. One of those is privacy. Which is the reason most people don't realise how disproportionately important the international rich are in economic terms. (Part of keeping a low profile is keeping out of politics, and in a country where historically you didn't need political friends for 'protection' that has been easy.) We do have strong libel and confidentiality laws, and we don't have residential registration or ID cards. Libel is the most marginal factor in privacy. But the Government is bent on destroying the other elements.

It won't make everyone flee at once. And not everyone will be worried or annoyed. But these are the most mobile classes in the world. They can go elsewhere, if the balance of advantage shifts. The more publicity there is among foreign expats for Britain's surveillance state (and its cooperation with other surveillance states) and how it exposes them to inconvenience and unpleasantness, a prurient press, risk of kidnap, tax demands from home, political risk, and so forth... the more the balance will shift.

So talk to other expats you know about it. You may not be plugged into any of the very weathy networks yourself, but the more people know, the more the climate of opinion about Britain as a place to live will change. That change has to start somewhere.

Of course, we are also always on the look out for actual cases* that we and our allies might be able to take to court.

What the Home Office proposes is unprecedented outside wartime, is potentially discriminatory (as well as monumentally stupid) and may in fact contravene agreements about which we currently know very little. We would very much like to challenge this and other aspects of the ID scheme - though our chances of success may initially be slim.

Some of our allies (JCWI and Liberty amongst them) sought legal opinion during the passage of the Bill through Parliament and the Joint Committee on Human Rights' concerns were never fully addressed by Charles Clarke - who failed to stay in post anyway. Preliminary opinions indicate at least the possibility of some cases being brought foward, though - as I'm sure you might imagine - the government will be 'tuning' its approach to minimise the likelihood of legal challenge.

I am not saying that we can sue the government on this particular initiative, nor that we will. Such a thing can't be undertaken lightly or frivolously - especially given our limited resources. But we most certainly are looking for instances where the law is so plainly an ass, as to make a challenge possible.

In the meantime, and in addition to what Guy says above, if you work for an international company who has brought you to the UK, I'd suggest making representations to your employer. If big business starts getting shirty about having to tell its people that they'll be fingerprinted, tracked and have their privacy invaded for having the temerity to live in the UK for more than 3 months at least some people (Gordon, are you listening?) might begin to get the message...

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*Unfortunately, the reality is that something bad actually has to be done to somebody before the law can be challenged in our courts. One can't make a case on theoretical effects, or before the law has even been passed!

That is of course, unless you are an MP or a Lord, and one with that increasingly rarity: a combination of foresight and elbows.

Best regards

Indeed - and we continue to lobby as hard as we can on this issue. The battle intensifies...

Ofcourse. The guest probably came back, sore his/her post had disappeared and assumed that NO2ID were part of the conspiracy/useless and we have now lost him/her. You moderators are doing a great job.

May I suggest you leave threads where they are posted or at least add a locked thread (in original location) that points to the re categorised thread (as is done in other forums)

Losing someone who thinks that NO2ID could be part of a conspiracy is good strategy if you ask me.

Generally the mods do do this, as you'll see if you check out the other forums. I'm not sure why not in this case, but looking at the date of the original post it was close to when we restructured the forums - and we did have a few teething problems around then.

I think the protocol now involves adding a 'Moved:' marker to the post in question - you'll see a few of them around. Stuff that breaks the posted guidelines is moved, unmarked to 'Moderated' for later deletion.

No one asked you but if it smells like a fraud and it looks like a fraud and it sounds like a fraud then in all likelyhood it is a fraud.