NO2ID

Further to the discussion about fingerprinting of schoolchildren, here is a company which seems to think it's a rather good idea.

http://www.vericool.co.uk/home.html

penny for your thoughts?

If a kid misses school the school usually just rings their parents to check if their absence is legitimate.(easy and cheap)
But yet again we have the hi tech highly improbable IT answer.
And lets call it vericool so the kids will think its sooo! cool.

home schooling

Now this IS truly frightening. Thank God my school days are long gone.
My mother used to give me a shilling a day (5p) for my dinner. If I chose not to stay at school for my dinner, but instead pop out to the little shop around the corner (run by a classmates mother), I would buy a threepenny bottle of orange juice, and five Players Weights cigarettes!
Now this was a 'school dinner'!

What in the name of all that is HOLY is this country coming to?!

THESE ARE OUR CHILDREN for pity's sake!

And the majority of parents don't even KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING ON, let ALONE that there are ways to FIGHT it!

When are we going to WAKE UP and say 'hang on - they can't DO this' ??

*steps down from soap-box.....*

Dear Sir

I think your company is veristupid for pandering to the New Labour government’s totalitarian surveillance society. I suggest you consider getting a different job.

Right guys, I have stuck a post up about it on another large forum asking people to do likewise. Have you heard of viral marketing? Well get busy and lets make an example out of this company. Already IT companies are viewing this as a poisoned chalice so lets show them how much of a public relations disaster is possible. They deserve to be made an example of.

A bit of googling reveals the following.

http://www.anteonuk.com/COMPANYPROFILEGDIT.pdf

Anteon (UK) www.anteonuk.com is a UK-registered
subsidiary of General Dynamics Information
Technology and is located in Peterborough, England.


IT Systems:
VeriCool for Schools – Anteon (UK) is the market leader to the
education sector of the United Kingdom, providing fingertip
Registration and Cashless Catering solutions for Primary and
Secondary Schools


General Dynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics

General Dynamics (NYSE: GD) is a defense conglomerate formed by mergers and divestitures, and as of 2005 it is the sixth largest defense contractor in the world[1]. The company has changed markedly in the post-Cold War era of defense consolidation. The company has three main business segments, Marine, Combat Systems, and Information Systems and Technology.


And from Companies House

Date of Incorporation: 20/10/2005

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
None Supplied



You see what the game is?

A company with extensive experience of selling technological systems to government defence departments diversifying into the civilian IT sector and promoting an unnecessary technological solution to a problem that doesn't exist in order to increase its profits?

My email to Vericool:

I am a retired teacher, having spent over 30 years in secondary education in the UK.

Quite frankly I am horrified at the thought of using biometric identifiers, such as fingerprints, in the school environment.

The issues at stake here are profound in terms of privacy and civil liberties.

School pupils are not considered, rightly so in my opinion, mature enough to participate in the democratic process. They are certainly not mature enough to comprehend the significance and seriousness of providing biometric identifiers, which once taken, are no longer their individual private property or at their control.
Neither do I think that on such a fundamental issue, even the informed consent of parents, is sufficient.

All for the gain of a more efficient registration process!!!

We are given just one set of fingerprints at birth. If the biometric identifier is subsequently misused, then the individual concerned cannot get another set of fingerprints to recover their identity or privacy. This applies for the rest of that individual's lifetime, not simply for his period at school.

Having read information on your website:

"At no time can the encrypted digital signature be turned into usable, hardcopy data."

but the individual can (nearly) always subsequently be identified using this system. If the encrypted digital signature is given, sold, lost, published, then that child cannot recover that signature. It has been lost to him forever and he does not know when or how it will be used to his disadvatage by others.

Your company's choice of name seems designed to suggest that the systems you attempt to sell to schools are somehow the 'in thing' in children and young people's parlance.

I think that your company and systems are not 'Vericool', but indeed 'Veristupid' and Veridangerous'.

Parents, particularly, and teachers, in my opinion, should be made aware through publicity of the dangers of their children's involvement in such registration systems. If I can do anything to achieve that end, I will do so.

If only people would view the introduction of biometrics, especially for children, with the furious hatred and anger reserved presently for paedophiles.

Both biometrics and paedophiles have no place near children. They are equally sinister and contaminate innocence.

Whilst 'VeriCool' is a private company, its agenda seemingly dovetails so neatly with New Labour's that there is bound to be suspicion of a hidden agenda.

I am starting to view this government with the same total distrust and anger normally reserved for paedophiles. Ultimately, though, I suspect New Labour are more sinister, more threatening and more harmful than the majority of paedophiles.

New Labour should be ostracised in the same way as paedophiles.

Why am I not surprised to see that Capita is nvolved with this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4836024.stm

This government stinks of corruption, as do their conspirators & their companies.

ID cards, biometric data collecting, and the NIR is the latest in the facist regime that is becoming all-too common in this country. The fact that they are 'abusing' the trust and innocence of our children to further this is revolting, and needs to be stopped.

Equally sinister? I think (hope) you will find that you are in a minority of one with that opinion. Getting hysterical does not generally make an argument any stronger.

It's a bit like security cameras isn't it?

I remember when they first appeared in shops, and there was quite a fuss about "spy cameras", unwarranted "snooping" and "Big Brother".

Yet, a couple of decades later, and you can barely move without a camera having you in it's sights, and most likely, you're being recorded as well.

But most people, particularly young people, don't bat an eyelid, or even give it a second thought. It has become normal for everyone to be treated as a probable criminal who must be watched.

If you'd gone back to the 1940's, 50's or even 60's, the public at large would have been utterly horrified at the suggestion of such a proliferation of cameras and recording people without their knowledge or permission.

Indeed, that famous programme The Prisoner made a very strong point that no one in the Village ever escaped the all seeing eyes of Number Two...

Privacy and freedom does not die overnight. It dies from a thousand tiny cuts.

If you're fingerprinting tiny tots who present their fingers to register at school, that's the start of the "biometric generation", who will be entirely happy with having to present their fingerprint at every occasion imaginable.

Not just the "database state", but the "database society".

I imagine the generation after that will be the ones with RFID implant chips, who are tracked 24 hours a day. For their own convenience and good, of course.

I would say that paedophiles and biometrics are sinister in their own ways. Whether it is possible to equate them in the way that I did may be debateable, but my argument was informed by the idea that, whilst thankfully only a very small number of children encounter abuse at the hands of a paedophile, it looks as though, without our opposition, practically all will be subjected to biometric technology. They will be generally unable to oppose such an invasion of their privacy and in my view it is in danger of becoming an abuse for that reason. Putting myself in that position, I would have hated to be subjected to fingerprinting as a child. I was more than capable of sensing abuse at the hands of authoritarians who disrespected the wishes of children and I know that many share my anger at the way in which children are treated as a lesser species.

You say that you are hoping that I am completely alone in the opinion I express and with which you obviously vehemently disagree. I doubt that very much indeed and I suspect that you under-estimate just how strongly opposed many - with children and without - are to the rollout of the biometrics program to those of school age, and how sinister the agenda of those in power appears to those who have fully dispensed with naivety.

In accusing me of being 'hysterical' you somewhat overlook how your own use of the word could make your own argument appear a little overwrought - if not indeed, and with some irony, 'hysterical' itself. I just don't see that your sarcasm adds any value to your argument. You disagree with me. Fine. I think others will accept the validity of the point I am making and feel that you attempt to diminish the rights of children, and see that my comparison with paedophiles is illustrative on several levels.

Great to see peps getting fired up over this, my children have had to go through this shi* and myself and one other are the only ones kicking up a fuss...??

I'm glad others feel as I do, and dont just roll over and worry only about football or when to buy another beer....

I've posted details of the school on another post, please add to it and lets get the ball rolling into an avalanche..!!!

Yes, it is a perfect story to sell papers with. It affects the majority of the population; it's illegal and a very emotive subject. I'd really like to know how to get the info about schools in my area so that if one or more is fingerprinting then a letter to the local would get some debate going. Remember local papers need the local angle to the story.

No major disagreements with you, but one word here: Hoodies.

Surely the government should provide that information and should consult the public before moving ahead with this?

Just had this BULLSHIT done in our school.

I am 17, and me and a few other guys point blank refused to be 'processed'. We had a rather heated argument with our head of sixth form, as we all feel very strongly about this.

He said that there is 'no alternative'
and we will not survive in the school if we don't submit to it.
which basically means we will be kicked out.

I wondered if anyone knew if i could file some sort of lawsuit against this shit, SURELY they cannot kick me out for refusing to have my very personal biometric data taken and stored!? Surely that is my right, and it is the obligation of the school to provide an alternative?

It fucking broke my heart to watch all those hundreds of 13 year olds filing through the doors, and coming out the other side... less free.

In my school, where we had this done today, there were just as many 'hoodie' type students as normal students like me refusing to be processed. Hoodies are the minority, i beg adults to remember that. So many of us are genuinely intelligent, moral citizens.

we could do with some intelligent, moral citizens in government, too.

I think that they are *required* to provide an alternative for those who are either unable or unwilling to go through the process.

Was there any kind of parental consultation prior to this?
There is BECTA guidance on how these things are supposed to be handled but it's not legally binding...

Keep saying no! They can not refuse you an education!

Indeed. It is prescribed in Article 2 of the European Convention of Human Rights. I think it would be down to the school to demonstrate that the policy of requiring fingerprints has a legitimate objective AND is proportionate. They can't simply say "that's the rule: take it or leave it" and they would struggle, in light of well-proven alternatives - meal tickets, cash, library cards, registers - to achieving the legitimate aims they have.

If you are being pressured to have your fingerprints taken you would be wise to contact leavethemkidsalone for more advice, however some basic steps you can take are :

- Write to your school detailing your objection in full to the system and also in the same letter request the school provide a reasonable alternative as they are required to do so.

- Write to your LEA requesting any guidelines or information they have issued regarding biometric systems, read any and all responses carefully and look for the bits that detail alternatives. having some paperwork on your side helps

- Write to the local papers about the issue, as well as contacting as many parents as you can.

- Communicate with all the other students who have refused (even if they arent the group you usually talk to, coming together on this is required) try to form someway of meeting up to share information as well what has happened to each of you (ie how teachers, the school have treated you)

- Keep a record of everything, if you are invited to talk to any representative of the school or LEA take a witness and if possible a dictation machine. Good witnesses would be an adult not related to you or the school, if you can find one, a parent will do fine as well but its better if theyy arent related. Refuse to talk to them in private and insist on having at least one witness of your choosing present at all times.

These are just a few basic steps, needless to say always stay peaceful and calm, dont use violence or overly aggresive resistance and keep the swearing out of any conversations you have. Any slip ups can and will be used against you by the school.

Good Luck, remember they have no right to exclude you from an education because you refuse to participate in such a system just because they are too lazy to provide an alternative like they are required to do so. Make it hard for them and you'll find they'll probably back down, but dont lose your cool with anyone whatever you do as it wont help anything.

EDIT: I forgot to add, always be polite. Evfen if you are refusing to talk to them be polite, rudeness has no place in any of this.