NO2ID

Thx for clearing up what you meant guest, no hard feelings...

Update;

Had a councillour call to ease my mind today. (damage limitation..??) A very interesting chat, basically didnt know enough to make even a slightly valid argument.. But I am getting very quick responceses..??

Seemed intent to make the point that this is happening everywhere (soon) so roll over, but he deep down thought I was correct. I mentioned a few of the points from here and there where no good answers.

Also had a parents evening and the Head approched me. Said that if I wanted my children off the DB he would see to it. (Damage is already done) but I said I would like to "look" at the system first to see how it works etc, before making a descion, also a letter is going out to the parents to give them the opprtunity to see the system. (Horse is long gone)

Mantioned it to other parents who where unaware of it also, and where not very happy.

Also the local rag wants to talk to me.. I'm not interested in the paper, been in it enough, so I'm passing that one along to a friend, a very out spoken one

Let you all know any more when it happens..

NO ID FOR ME....!!

'Guest' - Only one relatively minor point in my posting was addressed.

As a parent did you not even think to question the efficacy of allowing your child's/children's fingerprint to be taken?

Were you consulted?

If so, did you give your express permission?

I wasn't suggesting you were blase, because of the threat of some sort of Orwellian plot, but because I find it disappointing that a person could think this is an acceptable way to deal with children.

I believe the whole idea is highly questionable from a legal point of view and even if this proved not to be the case, it's morally reprehensible.

Really! Generally speaking identical twins tend to live with the same parent - and thus if we had any identical twins at our school the same parent would be responsible for returning the books or paying for them.



Morally reprehensible? In what way? The philosophers of the enlightenment would normally define "morally reprehensible" as meaning that the individuals freedom was severely infringed (not in this case since the children are actually given more freedom to take books and other articles home from school), or because they were physically hurt or emotionally damaged by the experience. I can see no evidence of that.

Its not like the kids are in some Z-Cars episode where they are treated like criminals, lined up against a wall for a mug-shot and then have their fingers inked up to leave prints on a little card!

They already have! You just weren't notified

"But seriously"...
I was a little surprised to hear that you are 'just a parent of kids at the school' - the vehemence of your support for the scheme, and familiarity with details of its operation - gave rise to suspicions of a somewhat closer interest in the system.

I don't make accusations of evil plots being hatched, simply because the more obvious (and deserving) target for my skepticism is a company looking for profit.

Well actually I'm not vehemently supporting the scheme, I'm just a little bit bemused by the reactions of people here. The reactions are on a par with what I would expect if the teachers had started to order the kids around at gunpoint. By all means have a rant about it. You are only undermining your own credibility as far as I can see. You'll be burning laptops with finger recognition hardware next as a sign of the devil.

Fine. Vehemently defending, then. Happy now?


Um. No...

Guest, why don't you register and use a nickname so that we can all identify you? You are the same person who constantly tries to discredit people on this forum by calling them 'Luddites' and against 'progress' etc. You are quite a manipulator. Most people don't notice you...but I do.

How about the posting IP admins/mods..?? You can put mine up...

"I have nothing to hide"

We are campaigning to preserve privacy. Posting IP addresses would not be appropriate.

Yep I guessed that hence the winky smilie...

Murkster.

Any more news on the "biotheft" at your childs school.
Would be really interested to know if you had any positive results or whether you managed to view system, as my nieces school is (it seems) intent on something similar.

isis

Have had the letter from the school saying how the system is secure safe etc, no one has complained..?? And no mention of permission etc, the letter would not have been sent out if I hadnt made a noise.. ffs are these people stupid..??

The system was "tested" on two of the years one being my childrens year, but no mention about the library system that is already in place and I belive has the entire school on it.....

isis, you should be able to opt out of the scheme, the best argument I have found to sway opinon of other parents is to say about Police only taking criminals fingerprints/pictures and the fact that they can only do it in certain circumstances etc.., also whats to stop a child coming into class having there fingerprint taken than just walking back out..??

Whereas a teacher knows is a child is there..

Have let the subject lie for a while, but am making an appointment about the system after half term, a friend is coming with me as two sets of ears eyes etc are better than one...

Lets all create robots, out of the teachers and the pupils...

I think one of Hitler's quotes is very relevant here... this is from 1933:

"When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already. . . . What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community."

Guys ......... sorry to but-in ..... but

let me get this right, the schools have stopped the "nit-nurse" from examining pupils heads for lice because of the "touchy - feely" thing and alienating the "lesser well off" kids, they have stopped the dentist because of much the same ....... but its ok to fingerprint them because they may forget to return a library book or two on time?

And how do you know that any one of the teachers is not a closet paedophile.... have the teachers been fingerprinted and indexed, have you seen there background assessment.

Good points.... Will bring them up...

My kids have had this done as well. The problem is I think, we are all getting a bit paranoid. you can buy those finger print scanners for a few quid. I don't think schoold or teachers have any other motive than a bit of fun for using fingerprint scanners but the sort of people on this board are much more aware of what is coming soon we smell a rat where there isn't one.

The problem as I see it is that our kids are growing up accepting this sort of technology as the norm. If you grow up giving your fingerprints to the school, the youth club, the scouts etc whyy would youthink there was anything wrong with giving them to the government for a passport

If that is their idea of 'fun' then I'm not sure I would be happy with them being involved with my children's education.

You seem to be suggesting that these teachers are a bit naive in comparison with the people posting here? Maybe this is the problem - in addition to being governed by the corrupt we are taught by the naive!

No offence to any teachers on here but I think many of them are naive, many of them never had a real job and have spent their whole life in education.

I assume you were a kid once like me Guest? It is a long time ago now but ebing a bit of gadetman interested in computers etc I would have thought it was great fun seeing a computer know who I was my finger prints. I even thought about buying one for my home a couple of years ago but try as I might I could not think of a reason to justify this to my wife.

justify the cost that is

For me personally, it's not just the fact that children are learning to accept new technologies.

Things happen. They have done since the dawn of time (possibly before but let us not get into THAT debate... ). Nobody recorded it. But it STILL happened. In fact, what can't be recorded is part being a human being.

What I sometimes think we're moving toward is a world where every action is traceable, everything accountable for. One mistake would mean that the evidence of it existed forever. The pressure of that can't be good. This is why I have issues with ASBOs. I know that there are people who feel they've benefited from them and I accept that, but they do mean that childish mistakes follow a young person into adulthood and limit their life chances and personal outlooks.

Also, it's very easy to shift from lawfulness to lawlessness. What is legal today may not be in ten years time.

It's about the fact that we're also teaching our children that everything they do is 'on the record'.

I agree with you Shelly, I can recall an incident when I broke the law when I was about 11. In the grand scheme of things it was not much but it could have got me a record and who knows how that would have affected my future?

As it happens the incident truely was a one off and 35 years later I have never broken the law again, well you know what I mean.

I can also think of something I have done 20 years ago+, I am not saying what, which was not against the law at the time but is now. If that was recorded somehow and I was judged by todays standards how would that affect me today?

I have made myself sould like a bit of a scally now but I am not, honnest!

I certainly see the point you're making here. Though being kids, the excitement should soon wear off and they will start getting squeamish about using it straight afer that scruffy one who everyone knows picks his nose. And if it's younger kids, once they hit their surly teenage resenting-authority years they can look forward to some 'adjustment counselling'...

As for being 'on record', it's one thing to know that you're going to be found out about something, but the prospect of every single childhood mistake coming back to haunt you later in life is something I wouldn't wish on anyone - especially since what's on record won't be your side of the story.

[quote="Doctor_Wibble- especially since what's on record won't be your side of the story.[/quote]

That is a very very good point

Unless you are a politician or work in the Home Office. What stuns and insults me is their arrogance and hypocrisy (I'd be lying if I said I was immune to these by the way).

Almost nothing the Home Office runs seems to work, but we're expected to accept them refusing to apologise and demanding more power and resources in the face of overwhelming evidence that they can't even make use of the ones they have.

I am more shocked than I can express at what I have read here. Reading about childrens FINGERPRINTS being taken and used for a form of id made me literally want to vomit.

I cannot believe that any parent could take this casually - this is absolutely unspeakable. It's the worship of technology, and of the replacement of humanity and qualitative human interaction with a quantitative description.

Of course there does appear to be at least one person who has been brainwashed into unthinking acceptance of this disgraceful use of technology, simply because the people using it at the 'sharp end' appear to be wellmeaning, just thinking of saving a few pennies here and there. You can't humanise technology by saying, well Mrs Smith is a very nice person, and she's the person who explains the process to the children and makes it fun.

Will these same people accept it passively when this kind of thing comes to its logical end and a barcode and chip is routinely inserted into a child on birth?

You can imagine all the reasons that will be put forward for THAT one.