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 Post subject: some general points and queries
PostPosted: Fri, 20 May 2005 18:30:05 +0000 
Hello,

I have some points I wonder if anyone had any comments about:

Firstly; are the government expecting Northern Ireland nationalists to have an ID card? Seeing as NI residents have a choice of whether to have a British or Irish passport it seems that it would be difficult to enforce ID cards amongst those who with to identify as being Irish. Even if they do not have an Irish passport, it seems most would not want an ID card from the British government and outright refuse to register which would make it useless. That is not including anyone else who might refuse.

Secondly; if someone is admitted to hospital in a serious condition e.g. heart attack or serious accident and has no identification on them or their identity cannot be verified from biometric scans, would they have to be refused treatment? I find this hard to believe that they would, but it shows how the idea is flawed in preventing 'abuse' of the NHS. It seems the only way would be to use DNA identification which is the ultimate goal. Even this might take a while and not be reliable and so on, so this is flawed especially in emergencies.

Thirdly; it seems to me that the definition of a public service could quite conceivably mean 'any service the public use' which could cover everything. It seems that we already know that it will be used for purchases and so on, but I thought it was worth mentioning how secondary legislation may not even be required to force private bodies to comply.

Fourthly; I seem to remember Tony Blair being opposed to ID cards when in opposition. Although he claims things have changed since then (such as terrorist threat, although this was probably greater back then), he has was quoted as saying something like global warming is a bigger threat than terrorism. As usual, this shows his flawed logic. Rather like the war, the government seem to change the reasons we need ID cards as it suits them. Looking at the recent proposals by Michael Howard, John Major and Jack Straw it is indeed 'a solution looking for a problem' rather than a measured response to a real threat.

Finally; does NO2ID write to every MP outlining their opposition? I know being an organisation rather than a constituent they can write to anyone they want, so I wonder if they do this or just leave it up to individual members. It seems essential that every MP should be informed of the details of this, and if so I am confident it can be defeated whether in parliament or on the streets.

Keep up the good work!


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 Post subject: Re: some general points and queries
PostPosted: Fri, 20 May 2005 18:39:42 +0000 
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Joined: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 01:34:53 +0000
Posts: 179
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Anonymous wrote:
Hello,

I have some points I wonder if anyone had any comments about:

Firstly; are the government expecting Northern Ireland nationalists to have an ID card? Seeing as NI residents have a choice of whether to have a British or Irish passport it seems that it would be difficult to enforce ID cards amongst those who with to identify as being Irish. Even if they do not have an Irish passport, it seems most would not want an ID card from the British government and outright refuse to register which would make it useless. That is not including anyone else who might refuse.


Yep - anyone resident in the UK for over three months will have to have one - which will obviously include everyone in Northern Ireland when it becomes compulsory.


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 Post subject: Re: some general points and queries
PostPosted: Sun, 22 May 2005 09:43:02 +0000 
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Joined: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:34:03 +0000
Posts: 2532
Location: London
Anonymous wrote:
Finally; does NO2ID write to every MP outlining their opposition? I know being an organisation rather than a constituent they can write to anyone they want, so I wonder if they do this or just leave it up to individual members. It seems essential that every MP should be informed of the details of this, and if so I am confident it can be defeated whether in parliament or on the streets.


NO2ID has written as an organisation to every MP (with a few exceptions) three times now. The exceptions are limited to the irredeemable PM and Mr Blunkett, Sinn Fein MPs, who are opposed in principle they say, but don't participate in parliament so are a waste of our slim funds, and one rather pompous member who took exception to our tone and asked us not to write again. Those who come back to us get further briefings if they want, or counterarguments.

This does NOT mean that indvidual members and supporters can slack off contacting their own MP. Your MP will listen to your views (other MPs really won't want private additions to their huge post-bags). Though he or she may not have time to reply comprehensively, the weight of post on a particular issue matters deeply to how much they pay attention to it. Bear in mind that there are a vast number of issues a member will be asked to think about, so they must prioritise and constituent's concerns help them do so.

Face to face lobbying is even better. If you know your MP, and can introduce us, do let us know. <national.coordinator@no2id.net>, <parliamentary.liaison@no2id.net> We are particularly interested in talking to mainstream Labour MPs, because the other parties and the serial rebels of the left are well-known to us and overwhelmingly on our side. MPs, just like everyone else, do feel more disquiet about the scheme the better they understand it, so we have every hope that meeting them and talking about it can work. (As I never tire of explaining, we're not a partisan campaign and would be against the scheme whatever shade of Government were promoting it.)

If you don't know your MP, you can still lobby them in person if you can get to Westminster. So it may be well worth making an appointment.

_________________
Guy Herbert
General Secretary, NO2ID
general.secretary@no2id.net
(to contact me directly email. Don't use the forum messaging service.)


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 Post subject: So who was the pompous one ... ?
PostPosted: Mon, 23 May 2005 12:38:31 +0000 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:01:39 +0000 
We don't publicise people's names or other details unless they give us express permission to do so or unless the material is already public. This goes as much for stroppy MPs as for our supporters.

In any case, someone named and shamed is unlikely ever to return to the light side of the Force.

Equally, if an MP says "I don't give a toss about ID, but I'm going to vote to embarrass that bastard Blair," then his or her secret is safe with us.

Guy Herbert (away from home)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon, 23 May 2005 19:01:18 +0000 
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Joined: Sun, 01 May 2005 11:46:01 +0000
Posts: 51
Location: Sheffield
Quote:
Secondly; if someone is admitted to hospital in a serious condition e.g. heart attack or serious accident and has no identification on them or their identity cannot be verified from biometric scans, would they have to be refused treatment? I find this hard to believe that they would, but it shows how the idea is flawed in preventing 'abuse' of the NHS. It seems the only way would be to use DNA identification which is the ultimate goal. Even this might take a while and not be reliable and so on, so this is flawed especially in emergencies.


In interviews with staff from hospitals located around the country, the consensus has been that people will not be refused emergency treatment if they turn out not to be on the NIR.

I'm betting that should you be in such a situation, the police would be summoned before you left....


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