NO2ID

Just read all of this thread. I have worked in the same place for 34 years and if I am asked for my passport I will tell them i have one but that i am not allowing them to see it. I regulary make such stands. 34 years in the same employment give me a degree of confidence.

My son was recently employed in a part time job and was asked for his passport. Being a chip off the old block he asked what he should do and after some thought I told him to give them his passport.

It's one thing with 34 years service under your belt to make a stand but completely different if you are going cap in hand for a job.

I've been asked for copies of my birth certificate and passport 3 times at work. The first couple of times I went along with it but now I'm wondering where all these copies go.

CF

ok, I know this is an old one. but here goes....

There is no law that requires me to hand over my documents as I've been employed for 3 years at my work place. That much I know as I have beaten the legal team on that.

but can they threaten me with termination if I don't hand over my passport?
they have no legal right to demand a passport AFTER employment so is this harasment? Esp if they lied on a lot of ocasions telling me that is WAS law, even though I pointed out that it wasn't.


I'm sure under common law and EU law and privacy issues that you can not do that.

can I sue for these threats?

Call their bluff and clean up at the industrial tribunal!

Tried to register with an agency for some work, I haven't got a passport, and I still have a paper driving licence. I offered all details, checkable work history, and the items in the guidelines. No this was not good enough. As I have no passport it was suggested that I would need to produce a Certificate of Naturalisation from the Borders Agency to prove my continuing right to work in the nation of my birth

You dont need a passport of you can satisfy the ID requirement set out by the BA, they have two lists list B requires other ID for a British born person without a passport - I would suggest you print out that list from their website go along to the agency with this list and show all the required ID from that list if they still wont accept you thats discrimination.

I did the same thing with my agency, first they told me it was the law, then when I showed the print out and ID, told me it was their policy then they backed down all together when I threatened legal action, I am now getting regular temp work and have been put forward for full time jobs

Hello everyone!

Me: I am a contract steff member for a large organisation. recently my agency has been replaced by a new one. That new agency is now requestiong to veiw copy and keep on record my personal documents. naturally I don't want to cause a fuss but i am less than pleased to allow a company keep these on file when i have no idea if they'll be safe from fraud!

I have just spent the last two days doing some research and I don't like what im finding out. I have spoken to the Home Office and the Police with less than useful results.....
So essentially this is how i see it based on the document "comprehensive guidance for employers on preventing illigal working";

Page 43 - "Although employers are not legally required to conduct checks, we recommend that they are conducted on all employees, as this estabishes an excuse.......". It is not the law!

Page 45 - "As an employer, you place yourself at risk of liability if you emply a person aged 16 or over who is subject to immigration control.......". They need it to protect their arse in case of an audit.

Page 46 - " (Q) Which groups in the UK are not subject to immigration control?... (ABV) .....(A) British citizens". So in short if you are a british citizen and can prove it, the employer need not keep the records.

Thats how i see it. Simples eh? Just show them your passport, job done. If they get funny ask them to contact the Boarder & immigration adgency and report that they suspect that you are an illigal. Job done

I'll let you know how i get with this agument on Monday!!

UK employers are UNSKILLED!

Nearly ALL of them insist on seing my passport when they intend to employ me, however, I am an EEA citizen WHO HAS NOT HAVE TO OWN A PASSPORT to live and work ANYWHERE in the EEA (INCLUDING THE UNITED KINGDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

No Uk employers happen to know that!!!!! And NONE of them tends to accept my national ID card that MUST BE ACCEPTED as a passort within the EEA. MUST!!!!! IT is NOT the employers decision!!!

So my dear British friends, I am intending to claim Jobseeker's Allowance ON YOUR TAX, because nobody seems to employ me due my lack of a passport that I do not need to have.

Legally I need to have ONE of these:
An EU/EEA or Swiss passport;
An EU/EEA or Swiss National Identity Card
A registration certificate issued by the Home Office

I have got two of these (but one should be enough), but still NOBODY employs me, because I have got no passport.

It will be not my fault not having a job, since I meet all legal requirements to work here, but the UK employers who always advertise jobs with the phrase "previous experience is essential" have ONLY unskilled HR staff.

A passport is NOT a necessity in the EEA and the UK is a member state and MUST follow the EU legislations.

A lot of employers claim that producing a copy of one's passport is a Borders Agency requirement. It isn't, but establishing the identity and legal status of a worker allows the employer to 'establish an excuse against liability to pay a civil penalty'. Many employers who recruit people for short periods or one-off jobs (in my case Universities paying for external examiners) don't ask for passports until they come to pay you. In that case it is worth citing the Borders Agency advice which states quite clearly, 'You will only have the excuse if you check and copy the documents before the person starts working for you'.

Identity CAN BE PROVED by showing then an EEA national ID card that they MUST ACCEPT! The employers do not have the right to refuse them as they are valid travel documents throughout the EEA. (INCLUDING THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAN...) If they do not accept my EEA national ID card that means that they prevent me from working on an unaceptable grounds as having a passport is not a necessity if you are an EEA national. To be simple, I cannot be discriminated against passport holders. But I am by 100% of the UK employers, this I am going to claim JSA on your tax (as I am not getting a job, becasue I do not own something that I do not need to own, so not having a job is NOT ma fault) ..... as long as somebody starts enlightening the stupid British employers.

Please Please Help

I have a interview with T-Mobile and they want me to bring my passport to show my eligibility to work in the UK, the problem is i do not hold a passport of any kind and it would cost me 750 pounds to get a UK passport as i was not born in the UK, but i have live here for 20 years since i was 8. What i have is an indefinite leave to remain document which stats that i have the right to live and work here and i do not need any permission to work, also i have my p45, letter from my my solicitor starting my right to work, payment slips from previous employers, tax letters, student loan letters which all prove i am a UK resident. i have been to the jobcenter and they have told me what i have is sufficient enough but the only problem is i had another interview for Carphone warehouse even though i got the job they told me i would not be able to work for them until i bring a british passport. I really need to get of JSA and start working so if any one can help me out here i would be forever greatfull.

Kev

I suggest you get the Job Centre to phone them and explain that you are indeed eligible to work (get a manager to do it). If they still won't accept that then you've at least fulfilled all your responsibilities as to obtaining work as far as the Job Centre is concerned and they can have the slanging match.

Hi all,

Just been looking on govt web site about Asylum & Immigration Act 1996 as amended 2004/6 it starts off stating that the act ONLY applies to non EU nationals, so when employers ask you for passport id surely they are some how breaking the law (human rights act artical 8 right to privacy) OR dont have the right to ask for such documents. Comments please.

Regards to one & all

I think the answer to that is that employers are not allowed, under discrimination laws, to assume that somebody is non-EU just because of their accent, skin, or anything else. Therefore they have to check everybody equally.

My expired passport with the right of abode apparently cannot be used to prove my ongoing right to work. There are two regulations one that makes the certificate cease to have effect and the other is the employment checking documents order requiring checks of documents which have to be valid. UKBA state that by valid they mean in date.
Is no ID working towards having any of these secondary legislations repealed that were designed for ids and evidence of ids on current passports and documents ?? If so how can one go about demanding a change to this along with the drop of the ID card act all related acts that force IDs and Passports to be produced as evidence

I was at a job interview in the middle of July when I did not have a passport and the manager insisted on my getting a passport, she did not want top accept my Hungarian national ID card and she referred to the company policy. She said that this was their company policy to accept ONLY passports.
Then I went to Hungary(!) and had a passport made. I came back.... and received a letter from the employer stating what documenst I would need.
I quote from the letter:
1. Passport (or if no passport available, an eligible European national ID card showing the holder's nationality)

So after the manager insisted on my getting a passport made, the company sent me the letter confirming that the manager was not right.
But it cost me a price of a passport that I might never use as I can use my national identity card to go anywhere in Europe and I am not intending to go anywhere else. I paid the price of British managers' darkness. Outrageous.

The issue is not over... they want me to re-register ander the Worker Registration Scheme that I had done last in 2006 and worked for that employer for more than 24 months.... however, re-registering is only necessary in the first 12 months.

WHAT STUPID PEOPLE CAN BE MANAGERS AND HR STAFF IN THIS COUNTRY, HM?
I say, that in this country, as the issue is not an individual one. As this topic shows. I have actually never met an employer who would have known that EEA nationals do not need to have a passport to work here.

True, but the wording on page 9 (the 'three steps') is scary enough that employers won't want to chance it, hence the uphill struggle that many have related here.

When stupid employers do not accept EEA or Swiss national ID cards from prospective workers, they usually claim that 'it is their company policy that they accept only passports', but they usually wrong and the most annoying that they never happen to check if I might be right.
And I do know, I have always been right.

The other thing that they always say that making a copy of someone's passport establishes defence against civil penalty.
But, what they are unwilling to learn, is the fact that making a copy of the national ID card of an EEA or Swiss citizen does establish the exactly same defence. The newest European national ID cards sometimes have got more information and security feature than older, but still valid passports.

In my case, my old passport had actually less information than my national ID card does. It's true that my new passport has got biometric identification, the employer cannot read my fingerprint from a microchip, but for an example, the national ID card states the mother's name of the holder, while the passports do not. (Yes, ID card has got one more personal detail that helps to decide whether the card belongs to that person or not, while no employer will ever read your fingertips from your passport.)

ALL UK EMPLOYERS WHO DO NOT KNOW THIS ARE STUPID. GUESS HOW MANY PER CENT WE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT! Somewhat 99.9%.

Wherever I have ever applied for work, I have only met one employer (a recruitment agency) who was aware that the EEA national ID cards are fully compatible with the passports in this country.

All other employers I have met were ignorant. And I cannot help stressing that the most annoying thing that they never check if I might know things better than they do.

I'll be blown if I'm going to make it easy for the goverment to creat a profile of me easily as i think its all for ID cards, I think just showing someone from HR your documents should be enough as past writers have stated so that is what I'll be doing. If your company was investigated I'm sure they would be asking to see original again. Through my work I've had a CRB check so that surely should have been enough.
The reason I was give for wanting the documents was they have been requested by OFSTED and CQC both goverment organisations, and given the goverments and companys in general past care of personal info I'm not willing to give my mothers maiden name and passport number to either of them.

Employers are insisting on viewing and taking a copy of our passports for employment. To my knowledge employers have very little idea of how to verifiy whether a passport is genuine or fake. Won't this requirement simply lead to an explosion in the fake passport market?

Now that many employers are requesting a copy of prospective employees' passports, how can one spot the difference between genuine employers and scammers who are phishing for our passport details?

I have recently researched this subject because a friend of mine was dismissed for gross misconduct because they would not provide their passport. They have taken their employer to an industrial tribunal hence our research. Incidentally, they were born and bred in England, have a regional accent has been in employment in the UK for the best part of 40 years!

Firstly, The A&I 1996 act states that employers need to show that they have checked any new employee's right to work in the UK.
In my friends, and numerous other cases, this was satisfied by submitting their P45 which the employer can retain the P45's page 2.

Secondly, the revisions to the act e.g. 2004 and 2008 state quite clearly that the new rules for providing evidence apply to new employees only. For existing employees employed prior to 2004 they only need to meet 1996 act requirements.

As I see it, since my friend was employed in 2001 therefore had met the criteria set out in the 1996 act and therefore the employer was wrong to demand their passport.

On a more sinister note the local MP. Home Office and even the Home Secretary buried their heads in the sand like ostriches when asked in letters and emails to provide their understanding of the law - not one of them was willing to provide their view!

I hope I haven't misread the documentation in this case but it will be very interesting to see how the tribunal interpret the law, or will they turn a blind eye so as not to set a precedent and open the floodgates for numerous other claims.

I personally believe that the problem is not with the law but it is with bullying and incompetent employers and HR.

What information do i really have to leave unblanked?

Belatedly, I find this debate of interest.

Purpose of asking for copies of passports: to back-cover in case a case is brought against the employer/agency for not checking documents, even though this is not a legal requirement. They are creating their 'statutory excuse' in providing evidence through copies, even though a well-communicated company policy of ensuring visual checks were made would be sufficient, I suspect.

Let's face it, when people make copies of documents, they inevitably have a look and a chat for a few moments. Standards of data protection will vary tremendously, and there is little reason to expect a typical agency will be very good at complying with these requirements - even the government leaves USB sticks on trains, let's remember!

As for birth certificate alternatives - much the same as passports - they provide age information and therefore another, unintended consequence of the alarmist measures against immigrant workers - a potential for an age discrimination case to be brought.

And what of people like me, who are adopted and do not have a long form certificate? I do have a long form, but that's with my original name on it, and the whole thing is so sensitive and distressing that I would not be telling some half-witted 20-something year old agency worker about my innermost details. That, and the fact that the different names would send them into a total panic. It's always easier just to pay attention to the candidate without these 'oddities' - and another potential basis for a discrimination case.

Like most things, it doesn't do to think too much...

This is madness. My son has been told he MUST obtain a UK passport to prove he is entitled to work in the UK.
He has not got one, BUT they insist he must obtain one.
He supplied them with a copy of his Birth Certificate,BUT his employers say that the UKBA has not accepted this as proof of ID or entitlement to work, he asked why ? He was told that it contained the word "Extract" in the title, ands as such was not considred a full BC.
Some background, my son was born here in Edinburgh Scotland in the late 1980's
I was born here in 1956,my mother was Scots but my Father was a Polish ex serviceman, but had full Nauralisation papers.
Now, the word extract appears on ALL birth certificates issed by the Scottish Registrar for Births,Deaths & Marriages, also based here in Edinburgh. I phoned them, and they say that is becoming increasingly common, that the UKBA does NOT accept a Scottish Birth certificate as a valid proof of UK citizenship, because the UKBA does NOT understand the meaning of the word extract. The UKBA sees this to mean an abbreviated or summarised from, HOWEVER the word extract means that the details of the document have been "Extracted" from the UK register of Births,deaths & marriages, EVEN the full ORIGINAL has the word "EXTRACT in its title !!!
My son says he has been threatened with disciplinary procedures and even dismissal if he does not obtain a UK passport to prove his UK citizenship. This is total madness. Any advice very much appreciated
Johnny "Auld Reekie"
OBTW the manager that is pestering my son said at the last interview, "But you have a foreign name,it's Polish isn't it?"
to which my son replied "Yes Mrs Hoffman, it is a foreign surname originally, just like yours" she was NOT pleased.
However, this makes me wonder. If the Scots Birth Certificate is NOT considred by the UKBA as proof of UK citizenship, then why or how does the UKBA think that it will satisfy the Passport office ??????