NO2ID

the law may have recently been altered to make it easier to issue "penalties" - like a parking ticket

Sorry I lost the links but you can google it. UNcoincidentally (imo) Germany has just started its first census in 25 years. One report said it was because of a requirement by the European Union.
There is already stuff on the net about it being an EU thing in the future.
My personal opinion is that we are all going to be homogenised, rationalised and barcoded.
Please note what it says here in the 4th paragraph down. Which actually seems to contradict the 3rd paragraph down!
European Union regulations require all member states to provide statistics to Eurostat by the end of March 2014. The information supplied by the UK will come from our census statistics.
http://help.census.gov.uk/ni/help/help- ... 0005A.html
There is your answer I think.

Yes and no - we do not know *what* statistics are required by Eurostat, certainly nothing like as much as we were asked on the census form.

Surely the EU would only want to know how many and where. Anything else is extra rubbish from the ONS trying to justify its own existence...?

Well I am hearing snippets about the German census which I am trying to clarify. It would certainly be an interesting comparison.

Is the German census not supposed to be a lot more intrusive and just a "sample" of the population? With an supposedly almost 100% "compliance " rate you would think that Glen Watson has a big enough "sample" to decide how many brand-new schools and hospitals that are going to be built. Whoopee! I am also really looking forward to my library getting some new book in , those old Westerns are beginning to look a tad tatty.

I agree opening the door to these goons is a waste of time, they are just following a script, you can even see them reading it it is so blooming obvious OK, you can rant on with your "Have you heard about Lockheed Martin and how they supply cluster bombs that maim and kill little children." Census goon (shaking head with a vacant expression): Nooooooo... (on with the script)... you do not have to say anything, blah, blah, blah. Just a waste ranting on till they hear you out, they have job to do what they are very well paid for... why make it easy for them?

My opinion to, the information on this census could be used to sort the population into some sort of "usefulness" index. Here is something to think about: imagine (unless you already are ) you are someone who is elderly, disabled with a multitude of health problems, a traveler/gypsy who has never worked, no skills, no qualifications, illiterate, has no car... in short completely useless to some nefarious "overseer", how would YOU feel filling this form in, honestly? It would be like signing your own Death Warrant. You would be expected to be dragged away in the middle of the night for "termination". On the other hand I can see how someone who is young and fit with a good job, can drive etc would want to boast about their "achievements" like on a "social networking site", but then again this could back fire. "How healthy are you?" Hmm, let me think about that. Without knowing the REAL purpose behind the questions you could be doing yourself a massive disservice by completing and returning this census form. Quite frankly, this Census creeps me out.

Well, it is possible to place an "economic utility value" on a human being - ask an economist, a lot of politicians are economists; maybe this is what the Census is all about.

Think of it like a "credit score" - your value to the Corporate State

This goes a long way to explaining the rationale behind the census - brilliant and so spot on

Why the UK is a police state
I have a few points to make starting with the last comment.
Regime is not a negative word the UK and USA removed Saddam Hussein on grounds of a regime change and both Blair and Bush used the word completely freely as though they were doing something really good for Iraq.

SORRY IF THIS SEEMS LIKE A REALLY LENGTHY POST BUT I WILL KEEP IT AS SHORT AS I CAN.
THESE ARE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT POINTS THAT I AM TRYING TO CONVEY
SO PLEASE PLEASE READ THEM


Firstly I would like to say thank you to whoever started this thread about whether the UK is a police state or not?

What was interesting from my perspective was that I remember asking myself the same question a couple of years ago.

If I think about the question logically I actually would have to answer yes the UK is a police state.
The situation though the UK does not appear to be a police state as very few people rock the boat enough to get to see it in action.
Try to challenge with any determination any of the points I go on to make and my guess is that you would then get a definitive answer.

Trouble is no one does.

I am genuinely shocked and very saddened some of the comments and attitudes posted on this thread.
I have studied UK and world politics in some depth and over some time and from all sides.
I am in no doubt whatsoever that the government despite what they may have us believe are definitely not there to serve us.
We did not democratically elect them although we are led to believe that we did and as a result they have assumed power.
Are people aware that most tory cabinet minister are millionaires?
Yet they want to rob the people of this country blind.

One post actually stated that because we chose to put the government in power they are now there to serve us the people.
I do not mean this as a personal attack however anybody who beleives that to be the case has in fact fallen hook line and sinker
into their trap.

Life would be so nice and lovely and fluffy and really wonderful if only I could sit here with complete faith and trust that my politicians are tirelessly beavering around in no10 thinking and working on ideas all day everyday about how to enrich the average persons quality of life and happiness.

.
This government and the last government are controlled by the rich ruling elite which is headed by the apparently lovely and harmless monarchy neither which have been democratically elected.
The queen has the power to dissolve and get rid of our so called democratically chosen government at a stroke if she so wished.
The Queen has the backing if she ever chose to use them by the armed police force and the armed military.
Just in case that that was not enough we the people do not have a legal right to bare arms in case we might want to offer some resistance.


I am going to make a guess at this point and say that I bet anything that if anyone is still me that they are now really thinking that I have entirely lost the plot and even that maybe I should be certified.
I can almost hear people screaming good god!
she's completely barking she doesn't believe in laws and people will start going around murdering and robbing each other and will will have total anarchy.
However far from society plunging into utter chaos and lawlessness there are case histories as well as considerable academic studies to suggest that if society were left to police itself as it sees fit there would a noticeable drop in crime along with other all round benefits.
This subject alone has had a good deal of academic study dedicated to it and but if I try to go into any depth at all just now I will probably end up writing an essay on it so I won't.

However if anyone does want me to elaborate on this point or any other points please fell free to send me a message.
.



We would not want to upset the state in anyway at all would we?
God forbid that we spoil in anyway tiny way the big f%&*ing royal wedding with all their completely vacuous over privileged friends.
Let alone even a tiny thought that some honest working class person might even very slightly upset or offend a total despotic barbaric foreign leader from an African or middle eastern country that on any humanitarian grounds should never be invited into the UK but is and then welcomed with open arms.

We in this country the USA and many other countries are exploited and no more than their profit making slaves.
When they have no way of profiting from the people they throw them on the scrapheap.
This is capitalism and this time this government are trying to take just about everything from us.
We the working class the proletariat have fought and fought and made huge unmeasurable personal sacrifices for generation after generation to get the filthy obscenely rich to give back at least a small fraction of the wealth that we have made for them
Just check out some of the thousands of workers struggles from history if you do not believe what I am saying and you will see all to clearly that all the gains we the working class made were very rarely given to us.
Our parents our grandparents and their parents and so on all across the industrial world gave up so much for we we have today.
Such things as free healthcare, free education, an 8 hour day holiday pay,care for the old and disabled ,
welfare for those that can not work social housing and libraries etc etc.

As for the remark one poster made stating that we are ok as long as we do not break the law we have nothing to fear needs to have a good hard think about the situation we are in.
We need to seriously start to think about breaking utterly restrictive inhumane laws such as the right to a general strike for a start.
Thatcher brought in draconian anti strike laws to smash the power of the workers only for Labour who are supposedly the peoples party not to think once about repealing any of them.
Why? because it does not benefit the bosses and their profits.
Anyone who believes for 1 second that the state would not come down heavy and as hard if we start showing an meaningful civil disobedience I'm afraid is seriously naive and when the time comes as I believe it will they are in for a huge wake up call.
Just for now the police and the state are only as heavy handed as they need to be.
The fact we can exercise freedom of speech is not a threat in anyway to the government it is far more expedient for them to let us for the most part blow of some steam in a harmless fashion.
March 26 was absolute no threat to the state the absolute majority of the people demonstrating were never going to kick off the small breakaway anarchists were also completely manageable to the police.

This is outrageous! Those goons harassing this guy at the door misrepresented the Law several times here. I believe that is a very serious criminal offence. It's fraud. If any further action is taken as a result of this (what looks to me like an extortion attempt, which is also a criminal matter[/b) this guy should have no hesitation in suing these scum bags regardless of who they think they're contracting for.

Also, you have the right to film on your on property - that is the [b]LAW, who the hell do these goons think they are asking this guy to stop filming and then when they realise that they are not going to get anywhere demanding a copy of the disk - what a cheek. Also trespass and Breach of the Peace are Common Law violations. It is these goons that should be up in Court.

A high profile prosecution North of the Border in Scotchland for "file-sharing". When/if can we expect a similar propaganda piece on on an census non-returner having their home entered with a search warrant, arrested and having their property seized. I really can't see this happening though (not returning a census form is not an arrestable offence anyway) but the totalitarian way this country is going nothing surprises me any more.

Link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-g ... t-13351116

Who are these goons to conduct a "criminal investigation"? lol One a cop always a cop lol

No, she doesn't and no she hasn't. If this truly were the case then all Oliver Cromwell's efforts would have been in vain.

I wonder if anyone else has answered the door to this particular pair of camera-shy goons?

lol at the goon writing it all down when it is all on disk lol

There's a lot missing from that story, such as:

1. How was she positively identified from a IP address?
2. How was enough evidence against her and her location gathered in order that a search warrant be issued?
3. What does "mainstream market" mean? iTunes or bricks and mortar?
4. Why the hell did she admit anything?

(and why doesn't BBCode work?!)

A quick calculation of per-track cost shows it to be higher than online prices and lower than store prices. Which raises another question: why wasn't this amount queried?

Interesting defence of "hoarding". I've got "hoarding" too, to the tune of 100GB...

Copyright infringement is most certainly not tantamount to theft. Alonzi missed a massive opportunity here in a case that sets precedent in Scotland to bury this canard.

This is a good comment from the Daily Record story on this; which reckons that the sum total of these downloads was a staggering £0.00!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... -23121045/

"Look at the mistakes that Depute fiscal Erin Campbell is making in her statement.

""Each music file can be sold for 84 pence and each karaoke file is worth around £2.

"The accused had 24,243 karaoke files on her computer, and 7,493 music files, with an estimated total worth of £54,792.""

If the files being shared had any monetary value at all, then we could all save the world economy simply by sharing files with each other. That is the sick and twisted logic being employed.

The truth is, the monetary value of the files being shared is £0.00. No one was deprived of income because this lady shared some music Online, because the money never existed in the first place. There is no large pirate chest sitting somewhere, which fills up with 87p, every times someone shares a music file.

It took the USA courts years to realise that one file shared, does not equal one lost sale, and i fear that the Scottish courts, having no experience in dealing with these matters, will by into Erin Campbell story."


As always, there is a LOT missing from stories like this not least the "particular file sharing network based in the UK". I wouldn't be able to name any file sharing site in the UK. So it can't be just a common or garden site that a "tracker" can be downloaded from? Or does being part of a "swarm" constitute being part of a "hub?" Don't you just hate legalese! As the prosecutor said: "This is the first conviction of this nature in Scotland and the details are of an extremely technical nature" Hmm, so "technical" that us simple folk couldn't understand?

Also, had she received any previous warnings from her ISP about "downloading". Was this a site that she had registered her details with? Paid with credit card.

The "hoarding" defence is just a lot of baloney - we are long past the days of 16mb hard drive. How many mp3s could gather dust on a 500GB hard drive? More like a way of securing a guilty plea from the accused. And then the Sheriff has ordered a "psychological report"; trying to make out that someone is mentally ill for downloading a few tunes is well... crazy! I agree that this defendant should have maintained a not guilty plea and let the Crown "prove" its case; this may have forced the Crown into disclosing a lot more in open Court.

Notwithstanding the ins out outs of it, and whether or not the "evidence" was more substantial than an IP number gathered by the music industry enforcers, this is a hallmark of a Totalitarian State; there can't be a more oppressive country outside of Scotland than Saudia Arabia. And some how I doubt that that Saudi authorities would stoop this low.

I expect that there will have been a few mass deletions of hard drives and CD burning after this story broke.

CD burning as in CDs being thrown onto the bonfire!

Hoarding?! 500GB / a 5MB mp3 = 100,000. And most folk these days have a 1 TB drive for storing their "stuff" on so 200,000 mp3 @ £2 a time = £400,000! This is how ridiculous this is. And good luck to this lady, hope all goes well

This is serious: a complete falsehood flying under the radar and seeping further into the public's consciousness. Danger as because it sets a precedent as it becomes the basis of future decision making. Alonzi may be be guilty of "copyright infringement" but in my opinion he is "guilty" of gross negligence and incompetence. The problem to is that since this lady has pleaded guilty there is no chance to Appeal the Facts of the Case (only the sentence). I don't want to get into "conspiracy theories", but could it be that the authorities have "pre-selected" their "victim" in some way; because a lot of people would have challenged this; in fact, a lot of people would jump at the chance to challenge this in the Courts.

Maybe the authorities used this lady's census data as part of the "inquiry". This is yet another good reason to NOT fill this "intrusive" form in.

What is it that Benito Mussilino said: "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." I think we would all do well to bear these words in mind.

Do you not think that there is perhaps a teeny-tiny possibility that this case started before the census forms were even sent out?

Also the presence of an internet connection does tend to suggest that someone, somewhere - who knows, maybe even the ISP - might have had a slight clue as to her name and address.