NO2ID

What's the likelihood that existing holders of UK ID cards will be able to retain them as travel documents until their expiry date?

I have spent a lot of time living or working in four other European countries, where everyone is obliged by law to carry a national ID card at all times. Although I do not agree with such laws for reasons of civil liberties, British citizens are nevertheless obliged to comply with the laws of other countries. In those countries, citizens of countries that do not issue national ID cards instead have to carry their passports at all times, which is cumbersome and awkward, as they don't fit in one's wallet. This has always put ex-pat British citizens at a disadvantage compared to ex-pat citizens of most other EU countries who do not have to carry such a bulky document everywhere they go while exercising their right to live and work in other EU countries. In summer months in warmer climes than our own, one often has fewer pockets in which to carry a passport at all times. Furthermore, ID cards as a travel document are much less likely to be lost than a passport, which reduces the burden on British consular missions across Europe.

Many British citizens are already using ID cards instead of passports for travel within the EEA and Switzerland, and immigration authorities in all those countries are already trained to recognise them along with ID cards issued by other EEA member states. Many British citizens are already outside the UK travelling on an ID card rather than a passport, and it would be administratively painful to cancel those people's valid travel documents while they are already abroad. Bear in mind that some people with ID cards may be living abroad for months or years at a time. It would also cost a lot more to refund the £30 to existing ID card holders than to continue recognising them as valid travel documents.

Is there any reason why the government may cancel existing ID cards before their expiry for use as a travel document?

Yes for two reasons.

1 If the act is repealed then the card becomes a useless unacceptable form of identification

2 While accepting it as a travel document many countries do not presently accept the UK ID card as proof of identity, Germany and Hungary spring immediately to mind (but check out http://www.fco.gov.uk for individual and updated advice on each member state) and require British citizens to carry their passports with them at all times, so to travel successfully throughout Europe you would need your passport with you anyway.

I think it is unlikely that the current government in the UK would spend time and resources encouraging reticent European countries to adopt an unsuccessful and extant ID card as a form of legitimate identification for its citizens travelling within the EU.

I think this answer is incorrect.



Why? There is no domestic law, fortunately, concerning what is an acceptable form of identity.

But...



EU law says they must accept a national identity card as conclusive evidence of EU citizenship and cannot deny you services, nor discriminate against you in any way. (Another case of the FCO abdicating its obligations if it hasn't fought that case.) You don't need a passport to travel or live anywhere in the EU if you have a member-state identity card. It is getting out of Britain that is the main problem. Evidencing your "identity" is not what a passport is for, it shows nationality.

All EEA countries and Switzerland recognise UK ID cards as a valid travel document. This is confirmed at http://www.fco.gov.uk specifically for Germany and Hungary.

Initially at guest (6:30) do read the quote in your post before agreeing with me so vehemently (not your intention I think). I at no time disputed the travel aspect of the card (although after a little digging that area becomes a little shady as well).

For point one please read today's Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... lders.html
specifically

" The cards – which can currently be used to travel in Europe without a passport – will be invalidated and individuals who paid £30 for them will be forced to purchase a passport instead. "

And on we go...
From the FCO
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-liv ... pe/germany
"Local laws and customs
You should carry your valid passport with you at all times. German police have the right to ask to see identification. For British citizens, the only acceptable form of ID is a valid passport."

Should you do some more ferretting around the FCO site you will note that mention of ID cards as either travel or identity documents under certain countries is conspicuous by its absence (while highlighted in others).

Also please follow this link from the Hungarian Embassy in London
http://www.mfa.gov.hu/kulkepviselet/UK/ ... mation.htm
and scroll down to the table under point 7. (also see point 10- a specific mention of another member state's ID card being acceptable).

I am certainly not arguing against what EU law states, however what constitutes a NATIONAL* ID card under that law is open to interpretation. The current advice in certain EU member states (not backwaters) is to ensure you have your passport with you at all times and, to clarify, I stress that point to combat the original poster's point that s/he does not wish to return carrying a passport around as it is very bulky, when in actual fact under certain member state's domestic law and/or practice s/he should have been carrying their passport anyway.

*An unresearched belief is that as the card is not compulsory it does not (perhaps yet) have the same status as other member state ID cards.

What does the government have to gain by cancelling cards already in circulation? This only creates anger amongst those who got them as travel documents and offers no advantage to anyone, especially as they're not refunding the £30.

There are about 40 million UK passports in circulation, and 10,000 ID cards. If ID cards remain valid, the Border Agency would have to train every passport officer for the next 10 years to recognise ID cards, even though only 1 in 4,000 British citizens would ever present them with an ID card. That training and support for the next ten years would cost money. At the moment that's in short supply.

Edits: Spelling.

This argument doesn't hold water at all. What about British citizens resident in Gibraltar who use British ID cards issued by the government of Gibraltar as a travel document? Should every EU country just say they can't be bothered to train their immigration officials to recognise these cards because only a few thousand people have them? The training has already been done to recognise UK ID cards, and this applies not only to UK immigration but to to the immigration services in every EEA country and Switzerland.

Actually, your Gibraltar example reinforces my point rather well. There are about 30,000 Gibraltar residents, and apparently they do get detained from time to time at the UK border by immigration officials who don't recognise their ID cards. See: http://www.gibnet.com/media/idcard.htm

Even if the UK government were misguided enough to do what you ask, the 13,000 users of a now-defunct UK ID card would find themselves getting stopped by puzzled immigration officials from time to time. I predict that they'd soon give up, and start travelling on a real passport instead.

Added to the above is the fact that the cards are functionally useless without their associated readers and database. As they stand they prove nothing at all as there is no realistic means of validating them. You might just as well fill out an online application to one of the numerous suppliers of 'identity cards' and present one of their products.

The 'ID Card' is far better got rid of, from an official point of view, simply to avoid confusion and any question of what official value it actually has (virtually nil as it stands).

I beleive it's not about EU borders recognising the UK ID card as Identy its that EU countries no not recognize the card as proof of Nationality.

EG : If you have a UK ID card and you are obviously British it will be accepted.
A problem usually arrises if You have a UK ID card and look Foreign..

Not true. Why would you believe that? The French identity card is not compulsory.

When the repeal act is passed, the UK will cease to regard these cards as valid. But that does not mean any local official in any other European country will be any more or less aware of its validity. I'd be prepared to bet it will be just as useful except crossing the UK ports as ever it was.

If someone points out this photo-ID is no longer issued by UKgov a holder can use Dara O'Briain's line -- "But I'm still him."

The insistance that a document designed to identify you ceases to do so merely because the government has cancelled all such documents underlines the insanity of bureaucratic reification at the heart of the scheme.

Back to the original Poster and his/her dislike of having to carry their UK passport as a means of ID due to the law in other countries.

Of course there is also the added risk of theft of a passport while abroad.

The solution I use is simple. I pop down the local Post Office, give them a fiver and a photo (and my passport & driving license) and get an International Driving Permit. Seems to work and I can stick the thing in my pocket and even fold it in half to make it even smaller.

There are only 2 disadvantages:-

1. If you have no Driving license you can't have one.

2. It is only valid for 1 year.

Hope this helps.

Maaarrghk!

But how will a International driving Permit prove Your Nationality.
The main thing for Border Guards is to Know What Nationality one is..So to see if you have ' Free Movement' or need a visa etc.