NO2ID

This argument is crazy, we are all already just numbers, only we have many separate ones, like drivers licences in the DVLA database, no one is kicking up a fuss about that. Must of the data that will be stored on the ID cards the government has more than likely already got anyway.
The only people who should be opposed to the scheme are those with something to hide, criminal record etc...
The only thing you should really be worried about is the security of the database.

other example of numbers, national insurance ID card, students have NUS cards all with unique numbers, birth certificates probably even have numbers

Indeed, however they're not all linked together via a unique identifying number that identifies your actual existence, rather than driving history or medical records.

The also don't have the facility to provide an 'audit trail' of your movements.

The don't have the potential to turn GB into a 'papers please' state.

M

or the ability to fix the 'y' on my keyboard

It can feel like that sometimes, but it is something to resist, as you know it is wrong to treat anyone as "sub-human" - that attitude eventually leads to genocide.



I am. The up to 40% innaccuracy of the DVLA records is one of the major reasons for not trusting the Government's record on large scale databases.

The recent case of Barry Saul Dickinson who abused his access to the DVLA database to pass on private details of potential victims to his fellow so called "animal rights" extremists also shows that once such a database as the National Identity Register is created, it cannot ever be secured properly, and it presents a target worth investing a large amount of effort to infiltrate or compromise.

Keeping multiple voluntary and partial identity details, your "biographical footprint", like we have now, is a far more secure system than the "single point of failure" which the Government is planning to create.

http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/2004/10/dvla_database_c.html



The large amount of data that the Government is planning to grab from you will not fit onto even the top of the range Smart Cards, it will reside on a centralised online database system.

Government department do not share this data very efficiently internally, let alone between them, mostly because even "simple" things like name and address fields have been implemented in a hundred different non standard ways over the years. Look at the mess involved with the Criminal and Intelligence records not being shared properly between the 43 or so UK Police forces as highlighted by the Bichard Inquiry set up following the notorious Soham murders.



I oppose the ID card scheme and I have nothing criminal to hide, and to imply otherwise is libellous.

If you really have nothing to hide, then why not publish here online, your full name, all other names you have ever used, your current address, all previous addresses you have ever resided at both in the UK and abroad etc, and all the other "51 registerable facts " that the Identity Cards Bill will force you to hand over and to keep up to date under threat of a fine or prison.

Your personal details will be at far less risk of being abused by criminals or overzealous petty officials on this small internet discussion forum than when they get onto the National Identity Cards Register.



Every professional security expert who has contemplated the scale of what the Government is proposing with a centralised online biometric database cannot see any way of securing it adequately. Remember that unlike any normal database or computer system, if there is any security compromise in the future (and the future means for the rest of your life, and even after you are dead, not just a couple of years ahead) and your inflexible Biometric Identifiers are compromised, then you are screwed for life, as, short of major surgery, you cannot change your Biometric Identifiers and your identity credentials can be forged or replayed.

Only the Government Ministers talk of "unique" or "unforgeable" biometrics, nobody actually selling the technology dares to claim that for fear of ridicule and lawsuits.

There are other ways of implementing even a Biometric Smart Card ID system, but we have not been given the choice or even consulted on the alternatives, such as what other countries like Belgium or Sweden are implementing.

Thats why im against ID cards mate,

People can dismiss it as much as they like, but there is a decades-old agenda which is gathering more and more momentum thanks to the ignorance of society.

"It can feel like that sometimes, but it is something to resist, as you know it is wrong to treat anyone as "sub-human" - that attitude eventually leads to genocide."

This is a bit extreme, I dont see genocide happening in this country some how.

But using things like eye scans etc... on ID cards will make fraud some much harder (I know there will always be fraud to some extent). This can be used to ensure people get the correct benfits, health care, etc...

Whoever it was who said that we will become a number that states we exist, but surely the other numbers I listed such as NI and driving license numbers prove you exist

I think there is less to worry about than everyone thinks.

I know this statement is going to make some of you mad, not intended.

How maddened one becomes depends upon ones sense of self as an individual as opposed to a component of a process. I value my individuality and greatly resent others imposing constraint and their petty sense of order upon me.

Tell me, what right have you to reduce my personal liberty and independence to such a large extent when there is no clear benefit to society as a whole?

What value do you put on yourself or is it a sense of weakness and insecurity that encourages you to be so analy retentive?

Justin

In Iraq, Palestine, N Korea, Zimbabwe, Columbia, Haiti possibly

Speaking of Iris recognition. Anyone seen that part in "Demolition Man" where wesley snipes gouges out the eye of a doctor with a fountain pen in order to bypass an iris scanner?

Could happen!

Genocide...?

Maybe not by the British but... there are other countries that are willing to kidnap, illegally imprison, subject to torture and in case allow British citizens to die... with the full knowledge and PERMISSION by the Government!

Ten years ago WOULD you have thought there would be internment camps for British subjects?

There are now 4 I know of around London!

Examine more closely please the CCA...

What it does is removes the accountability of the government to provide certain basic rights, this could mean killing British citizens in the name of security, it also indemnifies the government from such things as torture, illegal seizure of assets and property, detention without trial, extradition without trial.

So, yes, maybe the UK government wouldn't kill off mass amounts of citizens, however, the CCA, likened by one lord as Blairs enabling act (akin to the 1933 Act of Enablement act by Adolf Hitler), these things COULD happen.

I think that only the labour party could get away with this sort of thing, if the nasty party had tried it on we would have all been to scared of their motives.

Blunket & blairs brave new world, is being snuck in under everyones noses, because they are supposed to be on the side of the people, socialist, or in blunkets case harmless, and wouldnt want to turn us all into some sort of slaves.




Also nobody beleived there would be concentration camps again in Germany, until Hitler came along, nobody could do anything to stop the Nazis once they got started.

Like a car accident knobody ever thinks its going to hapen to them.

My post is the above one also (nazis)

As you may have figured, I am left leaning, and do not vote for the tories EVER.

But this time around I really would vote for them if they said a clear no, to some of these America following idears of blair.

If others think anything like me, labour are gonna have a problem this election

I think that there is a major possibility of a real hung parliament, trouble is with kennedy and Howard refusing to coalesce, it will be very weak government with lots of squabbling and nothing getting achieved.

Did anyone notice the Lib-Dems "Brand New" slogan...

"We are the Real Alternative..."

Isn't that what's been wheeled out every year since the SDP, how is it "new" this time round?

I reckon that the Greens, Lib Dems and the UK-IP plus a few independants wil nick a good amount of seats off the two main parties.

[quote="ancientone"]I think that there is a major possibility of a real hung parliament, trouble is with kennedy and Howard refusing to coalesce, it will be very weak government with lots of squabbling and nothing getting achieved.[quote]

Sounds good to me ...