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PostPosted: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:59:37 +0000 
Don't worry, this is latest message on GP list:

It seems the No2ID'ers and other protesters were all kicked out before you arrived.

There's a discussion and more info about what happened here:

http://www.no2id.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2515

Another group was caught in the loos while putting on anti ID card messages, and hoyed out by the police.

Finally the No2ID press release:(which then follows)


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PostPosted: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:28:37 +0000 
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Perhaps the way round this is to have, in addition to the main protest, a number of 'Ordinary' punters going to the HO Stand and asking awkward and loaded questions.
It's not a protest you are just trying to find out about ID Cards from the HO reps!

Black Cloud.


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PostPosted: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:33:09 +0000 
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Black Cloud wrote:
Perhaps the way round this is to have, in addition to the main protest, a number of 'Ordinary' punters going to the HO Stand and asking awkward and loaded questions.
It's not a protest you are just trying to find out about ID Cards from the HO reps!

Black Cloud.

Yes, this would be a good idea. If you are at a future roadshow event, it might be worth keeping a very low profile until the right time, i.e. when Mr Burnham shows up. Try to find out beforehand if the police/security staff have any legal grounds to prevent you demonstrating as well.


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PostPosted: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:55:09 +0000 
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jack wrote:
Try to find out beforehand if the police/security staff have any legal grounds to prevent you demonstrating as well.

The problem is that every roadshow event so far has been held on private property - Manchester Airport, Gyle Shopping Centre, Merry Hill Shopping Centre, Gateshead Metro Centre. If the Home Office staff are friendly with the shopping centre staff, which they must be to some extent, then it might only be a matter of asking someone from security to remove anyone from NO2ID from their private property. That's exactly what happened at the Metro Centre. Metro Centre staff clearly wanted to take things to the 'next level' because they immediately called for the police.

Here are a few tips I took away from the experience:-

* You will be made to feel like a criminal for publically opposing the government's ID card and National Identity Register scheme.

* If the numbers allow for it, organise a number of small groups so that Home Office staff cannot identify every protestor. Coordinate groups using mobile phones - if you have to meet face-to-face, do so away from shopping centre staff, police officers and CCTV cameras.

* A visible NO2ID presence is important to show the public we're out there and we're fighting the ID/NIR proposals. It also makes the Home Office staff nervous and can lead to them displaying an embarrassingly high level of paranoia - as happened at the Metro Centre when they called in police and security to 'police' the roadshow! Obviously you need to strike a balance between visible protest and not being threatened with arrest for publically opposing the government's plans - but it's a nice feeling when you hand someone a NO2ID leaflet, they take a glance and then look up and say 'good on you' and 'we need people like you prepared to oppose this nonsense'.

* Keep one or two very low-key supporters in the vicinity of the protest area who will serve as witnesses to any heavy-handedness, whilst remaining undetectable as supporters and reliable witnesses.

* Take a camera or, better yet, a video camera. Keep cameras and video cameras hidden until it is necessary to reveal them - such as when the police show up or when the minister arrives. If shopping centre staff or police attempt to intimidate you using video cameras, video them back - but be cautious not to give anyone an excuse to attempt to confiscate your equipment. If asked to stop filming on private property, you probably should stop.

* Keep unidentifiable supporters/protestors in the vicinity of the roadshow stand until the minister and/or press arrives, at which point you could either produce a giant ID card (or other prop) from your pocket or pose as a member of the public and ask the minister a few difficult questions, such as what happens if you're one of the 1 in 5 people whose fingerprint checks fails.

Stephen


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PostPosted: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:34:07 +0000 
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If you think policing costs were excessive, here is Chief Constable Craic's contact mechanism ...

https://ww2.northumbria.police.uk/ePoli ... e%20Craik&

It's quite hard to find on their website. And I suppose comments/complaints might be stronger if from Northumberland residents.


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PostPosted: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:07:05 +0000 
Guess which press release they used... a complete misrepresentation from the Evening Chronicle, as far as I can see.

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/eveningchronicle/eveningchronicle/tm_objectid=16161258%26method=full%26siteid=50081-name_page.html

Eyes have it for new passports

Sep 22 2005


By Sonia Sharma, The Evening Chronicle


Shoppers in the North East have given a thumbs-up to new high-tec passports being brought in to combat fraud.

The UK Passport Service (UKPS) held a roadshow in Gateshead's MetroCentre to raise awareness of the biometric technology being introduced from early next year.

People were able to have their irises and fingerprints scanned as well as see how the new ePassports will be recorded.

The biometric passports will have a chip with information about a person's facial characteristics. It involves measuring the distance between key points on the face, using a passport photo.

The picture will be digitally encoded and stored on a chip held in the passport. People are being given specific guidance on what kind of photos are not acceptable. For example, the eyes should not be covered by spectacle frames and there should not be shadows across the face.

Current holders do not need to exchange their passports as they will remain valid until the expiry date. The chip will be included when they apply for a new one.

In line with European Union standards, the UKPS is also considering including fingerprints from 2008. However, there are no plans as yet to add iris records on the documents.

It is understood the cost of passports will rise and an announcement about the price will be made in due course.

Joan Hall, 54, a housewife, of Low Fell, Gateshead, said: "I think the new technology is fantastic. If it cuts down fraud, it has to be good. It will mean better security. There is so much fraud these days that security has become a problem for people. If it costs more to get a passport because of the additional technology, it's worth it."

Ken James, 63, of Lanchester, County Durham, said: "This is an excellent idea. It will mean a lot more security, especially if anyone loses their passport."

John McClelland, 32, a GP from Sunniside, said: "The technology is interesting. I had no idea about how biometrics would be used but the roadshow has clarified things."

Home Office Minister Andy Burnham said: "Biometric technology is increasingly being used all over the world to combat fraud. The Government does not want British citizens to have `second class' passports and we will be moving towards fingerprint as well as facial image data in passports in the future to keep in step with our European partners.

"We are also looking at extending the protections these systems can bring to our everyday lives through a national identity card scheme. Over 80% of the eligible population has a passport and it is important the general public are aware of biometric technology."


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PostPosted: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:24:18 +0000 
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Letters to the editor of the Evening Chronicle can be sent to jennifer.bradbury@ncjmedia.co.uk according to this page. Letters probably have a better chance of being published if they come from local people - don't forget to include your full postal address in the e-mail. If you need inspiration for some short letters that might get published, have a look at the letters in this thread.

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PostPosted: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:36:09 +0000 
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A friend pointed me to this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruneyard_Shopping_Center . There was a landmark court case in the US in which Californians won the right to protest in shopping centres, even private ones. We could do with this right here.


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PostPosted: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:48:31 +0000 
I like the idea of turning up like an ordinary member of the public, wait till the minister arrives then go to the stand. First keep the disguise by asking neutral questions then half way through flip to the heavy questioning using the replies that you got from when pretending to be naive. Result, they just will have no idea which member of the public is which. It’s a good psychological ploy similar to the good cop/bad cop interrogation method.


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PostPosted: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:29:10 +0000 
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Baron von Lotsov. wrote:
I like the idea of turning up like an ordinary member of the public, wait till the minister arrives then go to the stand.


That's what I did. I acted really meek and naive, trying not to make excessive eye contact with anyone. I waited probably 10 minutes just to speak to the minister.

That might not work again. They didn't have a clue what I was going to do (nor did I for that matter).

You need a spotter to let the interviewer know when Burnham is free. You can create a distraction but you need the camera and microphone following the interviewer, who needs to go straight to Burnham.

Probably use the same line "What have you got to hide?"

What I never realised is that once the camera is on them, they can't do anything but pretend they're the fair and moral role-models they're supposed to be.

So set it up with the camera guys. Talk to local TV stations even if you don't know when it's happening. Talk to the local newspapers. Call all your media contacts. The earlier you can do it, the more likely you'll get national interest. Mention what happened today in Bristol, in Gateshead etc.


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PostPosted: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:16:32 +0000 
jack wrote:
A friend pointed me to this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruneyard_Shopping_Center . There was a landmark court case in the US in which Californians won the right to protest in shopping centres, even private ones. We could do with this right here.


US law is irrelevant. (And the California circuit atypical.) We could do with the Bill of Rights rights entrenched here, perhaps, but we don't have them.


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 Post subject: Here's the letter I sent them
PostPosted: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:55:29 +0000 
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Geraint wrote:
Letters to the editor of the Evening Chronicle can be sent to jennifer.bradbury@ncjmedia.co.uk according to this page.


Probably won't get published, but anyway:

Myself, as Nottingham NO2ID wrote:
Dear Evening Chronicle,

While not living in the area which your paper is circulated, I read with interest the following online article.

I feel that you didn't really present the whole story, and would therefore like to provide a few counterpoints to balance out the rather one-sided (although not necessarily intentionally so) nature of your article.

While it seems the members of the public you interviewed would be more than happy to part with large wads of cash for technology that even the Home Office trials have proven to be highly unreliable, a growing number of people in the UK remain to be convinced about the benefits of biometric information being incorporated into all areas of our daily lives.

The Home Office trials show conclusively that biometric technology is not yet ready for use on a wide scale. Of the three biometrics used, even the best - iris scanning - had a 4% verification failure rate (9% in disabled people). Fingerprint recognition had a failure rate of 19% and facial recognition a failure rate of 31%.

While these may sound like insignificant failure rates, even with 99.9% accuracy, on a national scale, taking into account all 48 million "eligible" UK citizens that would be stored on the system, it is theoretically possible that your data would match with any one of perhaps another 48,000 citizens!

You cannot afford to have such failures on a system that will supposedly "prove" our identities beyond any shadow of a doubt. Just imagine the fun that criminals will have with completely "trusted" fake identities. Far from giving us greater security, this highly expensive system gives us nothing but insurmountable danger, and infinite possibilities for untraceable identity fraud. Criminals do not adhere to the law, and will always remain one step ahead. Biometric technology will do nothing to stop them, and will in many cases provide whole new avenues of opportunity to commit crimes.

The technology is very, very far from ready for mainstream use, and while it's proponents (private companies who stand to make a tidy sum from selling it to us) wish to push it on as as quickly as they can, the long term benefit and need for this technology are still yet to be proven. Before even making a sound case for it, the government are rushing to push this upon us so fast, they are barely even acknowledging the glaringly obvious dangers of rapidly tieing us down to such expensive and proven unreliable technology.

As anybody with a computer knows, technology moves on at an stounding rate. In far less than ten years time, the current equipment and data recorded by it will be totally obsolete, and we'll be forced to pay through the nose, yet again, just to keep the system up to date. The companies behind this scheme are rubbing their hands with glee all the way to the bank, because they know what a bottomless cash-cow they've landed for themselves.

Then, after we've spent our billions of pounds to "protect" ourselves - will we be any safer from previously unknown, legitimate UK born and bred terrorists who can walk into a public place and commit a completely random act of violence? It doesn't take a degree in psychology to realise that people's identity details tell you absolutely nothing whatsoever about their intentions - those who believe otherwise are naive at best.

This whole scheme is nothing more than an exceptionally expensive tax on our identities, and a giant step into a "Big Brother" state that, far from strengthening, will critically weaken our national security in the long term.

If you aren't already scared witless about the effect ID cards and the database state will have on our lives, you simply haven't understood the facts of the matter yet. We still have a chance to stop this nightmare from ever becoming a reality, if we take action and stand up against it right now.

Yours sincerely,

David Silvester,
Nottingham NO2ID Local Campaign Coordinator


I'm happy, but then, it's taken me two beers to complete that, so... woo!


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