NO2ID

I have in my posession my ID card, or at least what was my ID card. It was issued to me in 1951 when I was only days old. I was unaware of it's existence until a year ago when, on the death of my parents, I came across it along with theirs. It's an innocuous little card, cheap cardboard, name and address, an instruction that it must be produced on demand, warnings of the consequences of failure to comply and numerous rubber stampings that must have made the 'stamper' feel very important. Looking now at the card, it's easy to either not realise, or dismiss, the resentment and ill feeling these cards generated in their day. It seems people tolerated them during the war but, at war's end, the need for them couldn't be justified and resistance to them grew. When one member of the public (Clarence H Willock) was challenged for failing to produce, a national issue erupted, leading to a lengthy legal process which finally led to their withdrawal in 1952. I was one of the last individuals in the UK to be issued with an Identity Card.

As a child I'd watch those old war movies where the gestapo, SS, KGB or whatever would challenge indiduals and demand their 'papers'. The people on the receiving end of this were always scared and nasty things happened to those who failed the challenge. This always frightened me; the thought that I could be stopped and told to produce 'papers'. What if I didn't have them on me? What if I lost them? What if the details on them wasn't what they wanted to read? What if there was a mistake on them? I was glad that I didn't live in a country that required me to produce 'papers'.

As I grew older I came to appreciate more and more, the freedom I enjoyed as a citizen of this country. Even as an adult I still feel a shiver at the scenes in those movies where menacing authority figures demand 'papers' from scared individuals.

The thing is, if someone asks/demands my name, I can choose to give it or not. If I apply to join a society or group that requires personal details, I can choose whether to join or not. I can choose whether to carry my driving licence or even drive. Similarily, I can choose to carry a bank/credit card or stash my money in a shoe box under the bed. I can keep my annonimity, providing I dont break any serious laws. I can choose to do, or not do, all these things, and many more, because that's the society in which I live, have always lived, and which my ancestors fought for. It's called a free society. Freedom. Freedom is not people carrying ID cards with personal details and biometric data on them. Freedom is not the need to carry 'papers'.

I will keep my old ID card – as a reminder of the dangers of such a system and those who successfully fought it.

Bob Wilson

Bob

A moving and simple tale well told. Would you forward it to your MP and indeed Mr Clarke (Blairs too far gone) on behalf of us all?

Thanking you in advance

Justin.

Thanks Justin, I'll take you up on that!

In fact, I'm in the process of sending off copies of my post to some key players, Mr Clark being one. Will let you know how it pans out.

Bob.

Better to send it to a newspaper or magazine or two. I'd recommend SAGA magazine, or Reader's Digest: big audiences, likely to be sympathetic to reminiscence.

You won't get change out of Clarke or party leaders, any more than they'd get it out of you...

Put this persuasive material in front of people who might be openminded enough to pay attention.

So you had an ID card for over fifty years without knowing about it.

mmmmm

So really wether you have one or not makes no difference?

A lot to be said when all anyone in this forum does is tell you that possessing an id card will ruin your life.


WHAT BOLLOCKS

You really have missed the point, haven't you?

The point that has been missed, Longrider, is that all this moaning is a waste of time. I'm with Paul

So one person - or lots of them - had an ID card for over 50 years, and it made no difference! Indeed, big deal! Now can we please hear from the many people who had ID cards (some for a lot less time) and it did make a difference?

I'll start. Walking down the street. No problem. The police man stopped me. No reason. Asked to see my ID card. I did not have it on me. Arrested me even though I was able to prove my identity because I was carrying a valid passport. Kept me in the police station for two hours. Fingerprints etc. Once they confirmed who i was, then I was free to go... Simple really. The year was 1980 and I was living in a European mediteraanean country. I suspect others will have more horid stories to tell us.

The bottom line is this: Just because some people notice no difference, it does not mean that there are no potential abusive powers associated with ID cards. There are serious implications for our civil liberties and our privacy. Ask those for whom ID cards made a difference in their lives. I consider myself lucky.

N.

Then you missed it too. Indeed, the only moaners I see here are those who drop in for a little drive-by preaching yet have no evidence to support their silly assertions.

Interesting, isn't it, that those who support the ID cards bill, demonstrate not only their lack of knowledge of its contents, but are so ignorant of their own position that they rely on a combination of assertions and ad hominems rather than reasoned argument.

What a stupid and unthinking argument. Does Paul really think at this level all the time, ie hardly at all?

Go away my fiend, sit down in a quiet corner and just consider what you have said. Let me help you to start-

THE 50 YEAR OLD CARD BECAME INVALID AND USELESS 50 YEARS AGO. NO NEED TO UPDATE OR REPLACE IT AND NO NEED TO PRODUCE IT, CARRY IT OR RELY ON IT FOR ANY PART OF YOUR LIFE. Hope I'm not tiring the brain cell here but let me continue, sorry big word there, let me carry on. THE ID CARD THAT MR BLAIR WANTS IS ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SCALE ALTOGETHER. But no doubt you can talk to him about this on monday, you do work for New Labour don't you, no one else could be so desperate as to try a stunt like this surely?

Justin (Nothing to hide but my privacy.)

My sister never travels abroad - but she always has a current passport. She carries it with her when she knows that she may need to prove her identity, along with her latest mobile phone bill.

She assures me that these documents have always been sufficient for her to prove who she was for any purpose. Why does she need an ID card? What is to stop the government issuing a cheaper and more compact "internal passport" to those who want them, such as my sister? All it need contain is the holder's name, date of birth, address and a recent photo. Such a document would not be intrusive, nor any threat to our privacy.

But we all know that the government want much more than this, don't we?

Stu

Whatever happened to the NI card from the eighties?

Issued by the DSS, slap a photo on it and instant non intrusive ID card as the DWP does have a trail of addresses and access to information that could be useful in tracking the ol' terrorist.

I found my old one from 1986, it used to be accepted once upon a time as well as a form of ID.

Just a thought mind about strengthening an existing system to be more robust but without the burden of major invasion of privacy etc.

Not that I am weakening mind, I will fight for the right to be believed that I am who I am, not prove it.