NO2ID

NO2ID

NO2ID's ID Card & Database State Online Discussion Forum
 
It is currently Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:05:30 +0000

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:07:14 +0000 
Offline

Joined: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:58:33 +0000
Posts: 9
Help
Doing My Coursework On DNA Database, I need some feedback on how you feel about dna databases and how you feel on it being on the computer (using ict)... :mrgreen: please help me !! also let me know what you feel about everyone being on the database too!! Thanks


Moderation: Moved from "Articles" to "DNA Database".


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:52:58 +0000 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:23:13 +0000
Posts: 10504
Location: Cambridge
Take a look at Liberty's thoughts here: http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/ ... /index.php

Here's the Liberty briefing on the last government's attempts to legislate in response to "Marper & S": http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/ ... ll-dna.pdf

GeneWatch's position statement: http://www.genewatch.org/sub-539478


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:05:31 +0000 
Offline

Joined: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:58:33 +0000
Posts: 9
Thanks, can i ask your opinion too?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:17:09 +0000 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:23:13 +0000
Posts: 10504
Location: Cambridge
tippett1993 wrote:
Thanks, can i ask your opinion too?

My opinion: Keeping the DNA of innocent people on the criminal DNA database is not only an offence against the sacrosanct principle that we are all innocent unless proven guilty, but the evidence also shows that it doesn't help solve more crimes.

_________________
Andrew Watson


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:02:45 +0000 
Offline
C-List
C-List

Joined: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:00:41 +0000
Posts: 988
Location: The Glorious Plutocratic ConDem Syndicate (Australo-Oriens locality)
It's also illegal according to ECHR...

_________________
Be seeing you...


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:10:06 +0000 
Offline

Joined: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:58:33 +0000
Posts: 9
ill look at that thanks.....

but do you think that if it does come to light that all innocent people have to be put onto this database, less crimes will be committed because people will have the fear that they might get caught....? :?:


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:41:45 +0000 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:34:03 +0000
Posts: 2532
Location: London
No. The proportion of crimes in which DNA is significant evidence is tiny in fact. And a high proportion of all crimes, including particularly crimes of violence and sexual assaults against strangers, where DNA is most important, are not carefully plotted but actions on impulse and opportunity.

If criminals consider the possibility of being caught at all before committing crimes, then it is clearly to dismiss it. Criminals who have been already caught may be less put off by the prospect, if their experience was of coping with the consequences. (Which latter has consequences for penal policy beyond the remit of NO2ID.)

'Deterrence' deters those who are already disposed to be deterred; by definition active criminals have a lower propensity for such conditioning, since pervasive social conditioning has not constrained them. They may well be shameless, and they have had direct positive reinforcement of their crimes by getting what they want from them.

_________________
Guy Herbert
General Secretary, NO2ID
general.secretary@no2id.net
(to contact me directly email. Don't use the forum messaging service.)


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:36:12 +0000 
Offline

Joined: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:58:33 +0000
Posts: 9
wow okay thanks, and how about if people are on the dna database, do you think they will do the worse crime possible if they know they are going to get caught either way?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:54:11 +0000 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:34:03 +0000
Posts: 2532
Location: London
tippett1993 wrote:
wow okay thanks, and how about if people are on the dna database, do you think they will do the worse crime possible if they know they are going to get caught either way?


Though the proverb says, "you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb," deriving from the 18th century laws where the death penalty was mandatory for thefts of value above a shilling (equivalent to much less than £10 in today's values), that's not about getting caught but about the seriousness of the penalty...

On the contrary, they *don't* know they wil be caught. They may not even consider it. (Though some of the most sickening crimes in recent years have been exacerbated by ill-conceived attempts to eliminate DNA evidence by burning the victim with chemicals or fire.) You are falling into the fallacy that criminals do crimes *in order* to be wicked. They don't. They do them out of perfectly ordinary motivations: greed, gluttony, lust, pride, anger, envy, laziness and fear - which in their particular cases and circumstances outweigh the law and, more importantly, the social conditioning to obey it and to treat their fellows well. They may do further and perhaps worse crimes to avoid getting caught, but that too is a balance of inhibition and motivation.

You are also, like many people, misunderstanding the consequence of being on the DNA database. It does not mean 'you will be caught'. DNA evidence can often do no more than place someone at the scene of the crime. Say your school is burnt down by a fire started in a classroom. The place may have a full collection of pupils' and teachers' DNA. But is that evidence that any particular one of them - or any of them at all - was involved in the arson?

_________________
Guy Herbert
General Secretary, NO2ID
general.secretary@no2id.net
(to contact me directly email. Don't use the forum messaging service.)


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What Do You Think?
PostPosted: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:37:08 +0000 
Offline

Joined: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:58:33 +0000
Posts: 9
wow thank you! what a great answer!!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum