NO2ID

I just watched a very interesting discussion online between some youngsters and would-be MPs, where the issue of CRB checks came up as they started to discuss the erosion of our civil liberties. One of the commentators argues that actually the whole thing is a sham and that it ferments distrust and a break in adult-child relations and hence sould be totally scrapped. I'm moving towards that opinion myself. Though Diane Abbott (who is in the discussion) errs on the side of caution saying we need 'some' checks in order to ensure a child's safety. I can see that Diane's argument, which I have heard often, entails all sorts of incorrect assumptions about the efficacy of CRB checks and ignores many of its negative outcomes in terms of repressing our rights to privacy, handing over disproportionate power to the state, as well as overriding our ability to judge and act upon situations accordingly.

http://current.com/news-and-politics/92 ... e-menu.htm

I was wondering what other people thought about it...

I support the use of a CRB checks for people employed to look after children (e.g. teachers, social workers) or those who may have to come into intimate contact with children (e.g. doctors, foster parents) and also for those in positions of authority (e.g. police officers).

I think the problem has been that far too many people are being checked and far too often.

Stu

I think that once a conviction is spent it should be erased. The timescales until a conviction becomes spent means that people who make one-off mistakes will be allowed to carry on with thier lives without that great millstone round thier necks, whilst serial offenders would always have one or more convictions unspent (or should be in prison but thats another debate)

Nowhere in this great State system is there any concept of reform or change in people. I work with numerous people (many of them late teens or young adult) who have fallen foul of the law for minor things and gained cautions or arrest records. Now a couple of years later or so, they find their job prospects seriously damaged when they apply for work, often after college courses or training and need a CRB and their 'record' comes up - I work in health care,but the same applies in education or child care. As a result many have to fight to convince employers this was a one off, or a result of the police being target mad, or a genuine mistake they regret now. Sometimes even with this they don't get employed or end up forgetting the training or course they did and have to settle for a mundane job instead of a career with prospects. A young relative of mine after trying to better themselves, has after a CRB check which showed up a drunken escapade three years earlier been told, you can stay on the course, but you can never work in this field. Crazy. Now they tell me they are quite happy to live on benefits then, as there isn't any point studying or working is there. Another NEET turned off but set up for life.

I believe that we are condemning our young people, blighting their future by restricting them to life on the dole, or to dead end jobs on the basis of these CRB checks. You might argue 'serves them right', but do we really believe that some silly action at 16 should blight your life for the next fifty years or more so seriously that they should be on benefits for ever because they can't get work. Its a foolish system. In the real world, people change, grow up, mature. In the eyes of the State which seeks to spot the 'young criminals' at nursery (see the profiling disputes), there is no hope of change or reformation. Is this a country we want to live in any more. Thank God, none of this was around when I was young - I would never have been able to work in education or health - two careers I have enjoyed for many years. Who will tackle this. Scrap the CRB it is useless as any number of recent court cases will show - it doesn't pick up the dangers as often as it blights lives. Sorry if its a rant, but it is a deeply felt opinion

This does depend a great deal on what we think a 'CRB' check is (or should be). I would have thought that an ability to check a name against police records to see if someone has been convicted of a serious offence relevant to the job in question is a perfectly sensible thing to be able to do.

OTOH, as said already, there needs to be a formal recognition that people can and do change; and a clear protocol for excluding certain categories of offence from appearing on the CRB record at all once they are 'spent' so as not to prejudice someone's future.

Mind you this whole mess merely highlights our society's abject refusal to engage with the issues of crime, justice, and humanity in realistic and humane ways. Instead we seem stuck in a 'tabloid' approach to crime and punishment.

The ISA scheme on top of CRB will ensure that the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act will be useless, as their lifetime checking, will ensure old youth convictions will never die, and will allow the ISA to keep otherwise worthy people like ex druggies lecturing young people against, making their mistakes, from making their contribution to society.

A lead campaigner against the ISA is the Royal College of Nursing. It's well worth taking a few minutes to view their presentation:

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/file/0011/301502/ISA_presentation_2010_Roz.ppt

Examples of harm or neglect have been drawn very wide and are highly subjective:



This places employees in a highly vulnerable situation. A single allegation by, say, a patient lacking mental capacity could lead to someone being barred, not as a result of poor conduct, but as a result of a simple personality clash.

The Court of Appeal has already ruled that people should not be placed on a barring list before they have had a fair hearing:
https://www.rcn.org.uk/newsevents/press_releases/uk/rcn_welcomes_appeal_court_ruling_on_pova_list



It is surely only a matter of time before a similar ruling is made against the ISA.

The whole thing has gone too far, under this then if a hospital volunteer or nurse or anyone says to a patient/relative "Would you like a cup of tea love" they could fall foul of the ISA and be barred on a referral for "Over familiarity"

i find im being treated like a serial killer altho my crb conviction is a spent one and i never knew it wasn,t till a change of job a few years back . the problem is now being a sub contractor to a local council , and what work i do and what is on my crb altho spent is being used against me to discriminate against me ie my offence is " inappropriate " . yet it hasnt been till a change of local government . as i had a review before i even doing the work i need the crb for . i will be appealin aginst my local goverment because this is now affecting my very livleyhood and emotional state and has almost split up myself and my partner . who was around when the conviction on my crb was just an offence and not gone through court . any way i can legally ncil to court and get compensation and have my crb record cleared ??



anon

It's also the blinkered approach that is taken when a previous offence is discovered; surely an ex-addict seeking to lecture young people about their mistakes in order to educate them (by applying for an outreach programme or similar) is exactly the kind of person that is most qualified to do the job. Sadly, you get someone who usually has no personal experience whatsoever - and neither does their family nor friends - who spout off pat burble contained in "information" sheets cobbled together by more people with no (in)direct experience.

For too long now the CRB check has been abused by employers (esp local govt) in what appears to me to be an attempt to gain information on prospective employees which carry absolutely no relevance to the position advertised. I refer to jobs such as, public park groundsman, cook, labourer etc. It strikes me that the rehabilitation of offenders act has been subject to "special exemption" on so many occasions that it has become the norm to vet every employee in the name of "risk assesment". Truly I believe most employers are using it not to safeguard the young or vulnerable but to ensure the non pilfering of paper clips.

i work with children and vunerable adults and had past minor convictions on my crb wich were of a non sexual nature or non violent.and were commited 30 yeras ago as a teenager and juvinile i feel that im a very commited person and that i not tempted by any crime have overcome the problems i had as ateenager and can relate to people well .i have had alot of positive feed back and good refrences from the places where i have worked.i have recently moved area and have applied for agencie work at 3 agencies who deal with the local council and have been told that they wont be able to employ me as i dont have a clear crb.they told me the problem is with the online booking system which has boxes with state clear or non clear crb.i have been offered work ,but not in my field.i feel like im still being punished ,and im trying to get my convictions removed through a human rights lawyer.i feel alot needs to be changed with the crb system .

Well, one of the strongest points we have against it is that it has existed for a very short time, and a perfectly recognisable modern society survived perfectly well without it. There are no attempts to show it has caused any decrease in crime, which leads me to suspect there is not even weak evidence. The Home Office is not usually very scrupulous about evidential quality, so perhaps the silence betokens something more.