NO2ID

This has just started and so far I have not seen any reports. Maybe we could post our actual experiences here? Including any legal outcomes.

This now doing the rounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bmnAhEs11w

"Doing the rounds". Right.

That's fifteen minutes of my life I will never get back.

The video is of some guy answering the door to the census follow-up people and doing the "I am a freeman", "talk to my birth certificate" and how his full name is a "legal fiction" and "I do not consent" and a load more.

And right at the end it gives a link to the 'lawful rebellion' website. No surprise there I suppose.

Much as I don't like the census, hats off to the two gentlemen who remained polite and calm in the face of a load of utter bollocks. The guy really isn't doing himself any favours. "look at me aren't I clever" sorry mate you're not.

In short, don't bother wasting your time watching it.

I would rather see someone flatly refusing on the principle that they think it is wrong, not by hiding behind some cobblers they read on the internet.

One thing that we CAN learn from the video that the NCOs appear to be following a check-box procedure to the letter to gain "evidence" in order to obtain a prosecution. Also, I can't help but get the impression that this guy was waiting in eagerly awaiting these goons, NCOs or whatever the correct term is visit; I mean the camera was already set up. Those NCOs were almost certainly retired police, you could just tell. From a legal perspective he certainly didn't do himself any favours. It would have been a lot simpler to not answer the door. And what was the strange crashing noise towards the end; wonder what the "procedure" was then. Looks like a youtube hit. And what was the strange crashing noise towards the end?

The NCOs can be heard saying "speak to you soon" so we can expect another video some time soon.

If you just watch the video you may be mislead re some details: the guy has posted that the answered the door and the NCOs asked if a MR MARSHALL lived there (but crucially he does not state if he had already given the ONS this name either when as he states returned the form marked No Contract three times and in a follow-up visit by a census collector woman) and he went and fetched his birth certificate. So at the point the video starts he has ALREADY answered the door hence why you cannot hear any knocking from the goons/NCOs.

Check out the "expiry date" on the goons/NCOs ID badge 23/11/2011 - a Wednesday.

Is it me but I got the impression that their first tack was not to be out to get you but to get you to fill the b* thing in?
I found this quite reassuring.
Whatever - I'm going with the 'no response' though I do wish I had the guts to say 'no and this is why'.

Not really, it is just so that they can say that they have "given you every opportunity", it covers their butt so to speak and sounds a lot better in court, no wriggle room for j' accuse. You can also see from the video that they are making every effort to "stick to the script" and stay EXACTLY within the Law - the Law as far as they are concerned.

They have to establish that you are the householder, are responsible for the census return, having been given every opportunity to complete one, have PERSISTENTLY refused. Then once they have your full name and date of birth they can send a report of to the Crown Prosecution Service* for consideration. This guy may or may not understand the concept of Lawful Rebellion?! but what he DOES NOT understand is the Laws of Evidence - DO NOT give these evidence-gatherers evidence.

We now know what the procedure is re outright refusers, wonder what their strategy is, if any, with the no-contacters - probably try and provoke a face-to-face confrontation.



* Procurator Fiscal Service in Scotland


I still think the best strategy (at least so far ) is:



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Do not open the door to them!

If these goons/NCOs really do go down the road of treating census non-returns as a proper "criminal investigation" as the officer said, they could then easily establish if a premises is occupied, and who The Occupier/ named individual(s) is/are (is is not as if the Police can't), they could then present their evidence to a Magistrate and obtain an Arrest/Search Warrant - they could then force entry and Arrest person(s) on suspicion of a breach of the Census Act 1920. Then it would be game-up for the "no-contacters", then we would know that we had sleepwalked into a Nazi Totalitarian State. So without going down the road of the Gestapo/involving other "agencies" then a quiet refusal to acknowledge them should keep the goons at bay.

So let us get this straight... this guy is quibbling about copying his disk, right? But he has freely handed these goons this BIRTH CERTIFICATE with his name and date of birth?! Of course this guy could be anyone - a burglar even - and the birth certificate for absolutely anyone. And what about this bit: "I am Freeman Dean of the family Marshall and that is Dean Marshall which is the legal fiction that you seek". So if they are seeking the legal fiction Dean Marshall who gave them his name? Freeman Dean of the family Marshall? Or did they acquire it by other means? I wonder Freeman Dean of the family Marshall will open the door to these goons again?

Notice the spyhole on Freeman Dean of the family Marshall's door, so Freeman Dean almost certainly didn't open the door unaware of the goons on the other side. And to think that we have been hiding behind the sofa for the past month when we could have just declared ourselves a Freewoman/man

Why is it so important that every last Freeperson in the land has to fill this in anyone, surely the ONS can just extrapolate the data set to fill in the blanks like all good statisticians, why the need to "harass" persons who are clearly, for whatever reason, patently just not interested? Or does *everyone*, Freepersons included have to be on the database. It will be worth keeping an eye on these goons activities because the more they push it the more sinister it looks.

Big thanks to this guys, if were honest, we have all really being been waiting to see if these NCO goons really existed and what they look like.

This Freeman has ID himself good and proper; all he is effectively saying is that it is the birth certificate (not a real person, there is a difference you know ) that the NCO goons are after. They have got everything that they want for a successful prosecution.

It seems that he has banked all on the legal fiction argument - which I don't pretend to understand. It remains to be seen whether it will hold up in court.
Actualy I thought they would have brought in the PACE caution earlier?
Had just closed my house door today when I practically bumped into an oncoming couple who sort of smiled at me. I thought 'Oh no!' and blanked them as I scurried off. It turned out they were friends of a neighbour. Bet they think the locals are an unfriendly bunch

When you think about it interviewing peeps "under caution" for not filling in a daft form is a blooming disgrace. Unless this video is fake n these guys are actors or summat.

Maybe he is 100% convinced that he is 100% in the right; maybe this approach is tried and tested and stood up in court before; or maybe he is parroting some nonsense that he read on an internet forum. If he does not know exactly what he is doing he should have left the door closed, like I will be doing Freewoman or not

Can we clarify this? Because I actually saw an NCO job advertised for a contract ending in November - though everywhere else it says mid August. Is it possiible extended contracts have been offered in some areas?

In my experience ID badges tend to "overshoot" the end of the contract; they could have just been run-off in a batch or maybe in the case of these census goons they may (as the job contract states) be required to appear in court a after their "field work" is completed i.e they could still state in court that they were in some way part of the ONS. Come to think of it, maybe it is like being on "call-out", something which they would no doubt get paid handsomely for. Anyway, we need clarification.

What about the original census collectors ID badges - did they not have an "expiry" of 20/05/2011 - like a week after their "holiday" ended and two weeks after their "official duties" ended.

Could be that (although unlikely) that these "expiry dates" are being put out there to deliberately mis-lead us Hiding behind the sofa in the run up to Christmas is going to be a right royal pain. And since most folk will have "buckled" by then these goons will be getting paid handsomely to conduct virtual "stake-out". Still, it would be a nice "bonus" for the goons Christmas, go nicely with the handsome police pension and whatever else they have going on the "side". It is disgusting to think that we work hard and toil to pay for our own harassment, talk about building your own gallows.

I notice that there is a lot of people (probably from the ONS ) trying to goad no-contactees into "standing up" to these goons i.e answering your door to these goons (WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE TO) and dropping yourself right in it. I am really suspicious of the motives of these types As far as I understand, not filling in this form is not an arrestable offence, so it is not like they are ever going to obtain an arrest warrant. They are relying solely on self-incrimination

This appears to be the best advice:

No contact
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No not open the door them

Ghandi

I didn't like that comment the goon made about this census being important for all of your neighbours: implying that when the ALREADY announced public sector cuts come into operation that this poor guy will be responsible for denying the council essential funding When the local hospital shuts this poor guy will get lynched Anyone know what the REAL reason for the census is and I don't mean what the TV ads tell us because we all know that is a load of old baloney. I'll throw out a few ideas? database state? back-door ID cards?, eugenics? build excellent schools for our children, build excellent hospitals for old, sick and disabled. One "clue" is that census documentation keeps mentioning "economics", now if we are to look at things through and accountant's bi-focal spectacles

I would really, really be careful to avoid all contact with these goons, the law may have recently been altered to issue "penalties" in respect of these types of offences - anyone confirm or deny This could be the reason why the NCO count is so low - more "administrative" duties than door-step knocking. These goons are BAD and they will use everything and anything AGAINST us. We must not give them anything. If it is within the Law - they will use it