Census webpage

Tenchy · **Posted:** Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:05:50 +0000

Have a look at this:

http://2011.census.gov.uk/My-census/How ... ct-my-data

Is this whole page just a bare-faced lie? I note reference to the 1920 Census Act, but it's been superseded with respect to confidentiality, hasn't it?

Has the ONS been taken to task on this matter by Paxman, Humphrys or similar?

Moderation: Moved from "Articles" to "FYI"

Guest · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:03:30 +0000

I notice a singular lack of any contact email address on their site

does anybody have one for them

Guest · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:06:20 +0000

cancel that request I found this one census.customerservices@ons.gsi.gov.uk

Guest · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:15:37 +0000

I've sent an email to census.customerservices@ons.gsi.gov.uk

Quote:

Dear sir or madam,

Regarding the census that will occur on 27th March 2011.

The ONS states that the data will be kept confidential for 100 years before being released to the public, that confidentiality being guaranteed in law. That the data collected will be anonymised before being statistically analysed and further that the results of this will be used to help plan resource and service allocation in the UK for the future.

This is all good and I fully support this endeavour.

However it has been brought to my attention that The Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007, casts some doubt on the guarantee of confidentiality the ONS is offering, specifically section 39, subsection 4.

Here is a link to an on line version of the document http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/18/section/39.

Subsection 1 would appear to guarantee the confidentiality of the data, however subsection 4, specifies certain exceptions to this as follows

(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to a disclosure which —

(a) is required or permitted by any enactment,
(b) is required by a Community obligation,
(c) is necessary for the purpose of enabling or assisting the Board to exercise any of its functions,
(d) has already lawfully been made available to the public,
(e) is made in pursuance of an order of a court,
(f) is made for the purposes of a criminal investigation or criminal proceedings (whether or not in the United Kingdom),
(g) is made, in the interests of national security, to an Intelligence Service,
(h) is made with the consent of the person to whom it relates, or
(i) is made to an approved researcher.

Now to me that says that there is a very long list of people will have access to my census return with my name and address still attached, and not just my data but the data of everyone who returns a form.

I specifically have issues with subsection 4a "is required or permitted by any enactment" as this allows any organisation with RIPA powers which includes people working for my district council full access to my census return from the second it leaves my possession. District councils have in the past been notorious for their abuse of RIPA powers to spy on the citizens in their domain, indeed council staff have lost their jobs when caught abusing RIPA powers for personal reasons and it would be naïve to assume this abuse has ceased.

I also have an issue with subsection 4b "is required by a Community obligation" as this means if the EU ask for the data they can have it, why they would need this information I have no idea but I object to them having the right to simply ask for it and get it.

Subsection 4e "is made in pursuance of an order of a court" also applies to court orders from civil courts, so we can expect custody battles, divorce proceedings and sundry disagreements between neighbours to access this data in uncensored form as well.

Can you clarify this issue for me please and further explain to me the ONS claims made on your own website regarding the confidentiality of the data in light of this act of parliament, the page in question is at http://2011.census.gov.uk/My-census/How ... ct-my-data and says the following.

Personal census information is protected by law
All census staff sign and are bound by an individual commitment to confidentiality
We will not share your personal information: census questionnaires are stored on microfiche and kept confidential for 100 years
All our systems and processes are built with very strong security safeguards
We use your information to produce and analyse numbers of people
All census questionnaires are processed in the UK

The bolded and underlined sentences would appear to be in direct contravention of The Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 which you subsequently state that you are bound by, as follows and also taken from the same web page

To ensure the confidentiality of your personal information, all our systems, processes, staff and contractors are bound by:

Data Protection Act 1998
Census Act 1920
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (SRSA)

I await your clarification of this issue with interest, specifically I am interested in how this will affect your upcoming advertising campaign for the 2011 census in light of the fact that the claims to confidentiality would appear to be incorrect, and further whether the 2011 census will now proceed in light of the apparent lack of confidentiality of the data.

Regards
K Challinor

the quotes from websites were indented but thats basically the gist, I'll publish any reply

KC

Andrew Watson · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:08:45 +0000

KC wrote:

Can you clarify this issue for me please and further explain to me the ONS claims made on your own website regarding the confidentiality of the data in light of this act of parliament, the page in question is at http://2011.census.gov.uk/My-census/How ... ct-my-data and says the following.

Personal census information is protected by law
All census staff sign and are bound by an individual commitment to confidentiality
We will not share your personal information: census questionnaires are stored on microfiche and kept confidential for 100 years
All our systems and processes are built with very strong security safeguards
We use your information to produce and analyse numbers of people
All census questionnaires are processed in the UK

The bolded and underlined sentences would appear to be in direct contravention of The Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 which you subsequently state that you are bound by, as follows and also taken from the same web page

To ensure the confidentiality of your personal information, all our systems, processes, staff and contractors are bound by:

Data Protection Act 1998
Census Act 1920
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (SRSA)

I await your clarification of this issue with interest, specifically I am interested in how this will affect your upcoming advertising campaign for the 2011 census in light of the fact that the claims to confidentiality would appear to be incorrect, and further whether the 2011 census will now proceed in light of the apparent lack of confidentiality of the data.

Truly excellent letter. I'll be very interested to see the reply.

Andrew Watson · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:01:43 +0000

A relevant FOI request:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/i ... nd_registr

If they take 20 days to reply, the result would come a couple of days before the census.

We'll see.

Andrew Watson · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:02:58 +0000

http://www.ons.gov.uk/census/2011-censu ... and-uk-law

Census data confidentiality and UK law
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (SRSA)

Census data confidentiality is protected by the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (SRSA).

The SRSA transferred the Census and other statistical functions of the Registrar General for England and Wales to the Statistics Board (UK Statistics Authority) formed on 1 April 2008.

The confidentiality provisions in SRSA and the duty on the Board to maintain confidentiality in the Census in England and Wales have replaced the confidentiality provisions of the Census Act.

...

Andrew Watson · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:04:24 +0000

This last web page seems pretty clear - where confidentiality is concerned, SRSA applies, not the Census Act.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:07:41 +0000

I wondered where this had gone, I thought I'd gone too far and it had been deleted for a second

had an automated reply that says

Quote:

This is an auto-response. Due to current levels of enquiries we are unable to reply immediately. We will, however, try to respond to you within 10 working days.

so we'll see what happens in 10 days

however I should state that as I currently cannot afford a £1000 fine I will be filling the census in even though the probability is low that they would target me.

actually after the email that probability probably risen significantly

regards
KC

Guest · **Posted:** Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:35:00 +0000

a reply has arrived, in the form of a PDF containing an image of the hardcopy document and I'm not going to upload the image as it has my contact details on.

If any of the senior No2ID guys need confirmation though I'm willing to send you a copy on the understanding you keep my contact details confidential

so bear with me I'm going to have to transcribe this as I can't cut & paste, apologies for any transcription errors

Quote:

Helen Bray
2011 Census
tel: 01329 444518
e-mail: Helen.n.bray@ons.gsi.gov.uk
Our Ref T0 11 55

Dear Ms Challinor

Thank you for your email of 24 February concerning the 2011 Census and the confidentiality of personal census data.

The Statistics and Registration Services Act 2007 (SRSA) makes it a criminal offence, subject to a maximum penalty of 24 months imprisonment and/or a fine for a member or employee of the United Kingdom Statistics Authority (of which the Office for National Statistics(ONS) is the executive arm) to disclose personal information held by the Authority in relation to any of its functions.

You are correct that the act allows disclosure of personal data in some circumstances, but the key point to note is that the Act does not require this to happen. Therefore, whilst ONS has the powers to disclose data, it does not have an obligation to do so and regularly refuses requests to disclose such data.

The UK Statistics Authority's policy and ONS practice, has been and remains that:
the UK Statistics Authority, the ONS and the National Statistician will never volunteer to disclose personal information for any non-statistical purpose;
if disclosure is sought, the UK Statistics Authority, the ONS and the National Statistician will always refuse to allow it, and will contest the case to the maximum extent possib;e under the law, using each stage of appeal in the Courts if necessary, in order to assure statistical confidentiality; and will do so in an open, public and transparent manner, to the extent permitted under the law; and
those seeking disclosure will be directed to non-statistical administrative sources as viable alternatives to statistical information.

Each year ONS receives a number of requests from the police and courts for personal information, and each request is refused and if necessary fought legally. I am not aware of any requests for personal information having been made by bodies holding powers under the Regulation of Investigatory Power Act in the way you have suggested or indeed any provisions under the Act that would allow an organisation access to personal census information. Any such request would in any case, also be refused in the same manner.

Information from census questionnaires is anonymised by removing names and addresses before they are analysed to produce the resultant statistics. Prior to release, additional statistical methods are used to ensure that an individual cannot be identified from the anonymised statistics that are published. SOme of these census statistics are provided to the European Union. However, there is no EU legislation which would require ONS or the National Statistician to provide to the EU personal census information under the provisions of Section 39 (4) a) of the SRSA.

I can assure you that confidential personal information acquired by ONS will be held in the strictest confidence. The census has a 200-year track record of preserving confidentiality and under current government policy personal census information will not be released for 100 years.

The messages issued by ONS concerning confidentiality are correct and are fully in accordance with the relevant legislation and current practice to protect personal information.

Yours sincerely
Helen Bray
2011 Census Stakeholder Management and Communications

Andrew Watson · **Posted:** Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:42:36 +0000

Thanks for posting the reply.

Helen Bray wrote:

if disclosure is sought, the UK Statistics Authority, the ONS and the National Statistician will always refuse to allow it, and will contest the case to the maximum extent possible under the law, using each stage of appeal in the Courts if necessary, in order to assure statistical confidentiality; and will do so in an open, public and transparent manner, to the extent permitted under the law

Since she's mentioned openess and transparency, I suggest you ask her for all the details of all cases since 2007 where they've refused to allow disclosure, and contested the case to the maximum extent possible under the law.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:58:15 +0000

ok trying again, sorry if this one isn't quite up to the standard of the other one, I sent

Quote:

Dear Ms Bray,

Thank you for your letter of the 28th February, however I fear you have not allayed my concerns.

I note with relief, that you state the ONS receives a number of requests for personal information from the courts and the police and that the ONS refuses all such requests.

However from my reading of the Statistics and Registration Services Act 2007 Section 39 (4), organisations with RIPA powers, the security services and the police forces of many nations to mention a few, will not be requesting this data, they will be demanding it as a right. Further the Act would appear to be worded such that these demands will be supported by law, and that by attempting to refuse such a demand the ONS itself would be breaking the law.

If the ONS, as you state, can maintain the confidentiality of personal information under this Act, then I put it to you that this particular subsection is clumsily worded at best, as it would appear to say the exact opposite, and requires clarification in Parliament before the next census is taken.

The Act would appear to say that while the ONS will not volunteer non anonymised data for any reason, certain organisations have a legal right to access it regardless of any objections the ONS may raise.

I would be grateful therefore if you could furnish me with a list of any requests for non anonymised census data the ONS has received and refused since this Act came into force and further indicate which of these required the ONS to contest the request in the courts and to what extent.

I thank you for your time and the effort you are making to answer my questions.

Regards
K Challinor

directly to Ms Bray

KC

Guest · **Posted:** Mon, 07 Mar 2011 14:14:54 +0000

Thanks for sharing your letters and the responses.

This information is very much in the public interest.

Guest · **Posted:** Tue, 08 Mar 2011 17:34:22 +0000

no worries, no response to date though

KC

Guest · **Posted:** Tue, 15 Mar 2011 02:02:56 +0000

still no response I think I'll send it again only to the main address this time

at least that way I'll get an acknowledgement even if it's automated

sent with the following paragraph inserted before the first on the original

Quote:

I originally sent this to your direct email address on the 3rd March 2011, but it seems to have been lost in the system as there has been no acknowledgement of it's receipt, so I'm trying the main address again, my apologies if you receive two email messages.

Guest · **Posted:** Tue, 15 Mar 2011 02:05:07 +0000

auto response received, so I know they have this one, and they know I know :wink:

KC

Guest · **Posted:** Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:43:30 +0000

I'm beginning to think a reply will not be forthcoming until after the census is taken, by which time it will be too late to do anything should action, such as motivating ministers, be warranted

KC

Guest · **Posted:** Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:45:30 +0000

I'm sure you're right, although I'd be interested to see the reply nevertheless, if you wouldn't mind sharing it here as you have been doing (assuming it's not too much trouble for you to do so).

It's so good to be able to it gathered together and shared around, even if it does come late in the day.

FurorTeutonicus · **Joined:** Fri, 25 Mar 2011 12:58:18 +0000 **Posts:** 2

Hello.

I don't know if this is exactly the correct thread, but I saw this today, which gave me one of those "I told you so!" moments;

Quote:

ONS officials have already begun preparing a replacement system should the 2011 census fail and prove to be the last.
They have approached private information holders including stores that run clubcard schemes to see if they will help.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1Hc5trkqw

So. "Club cards" are just "an innocent way of helping you shop" are they? :roll:

Guest · **Posted:** Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:48:13 +0000

Guest wrote:

I'm sure you're right, although I'd be interested to see the reply nevertheless, if you wouldn't mind sharing it here as you have been doing (assuming it's not too much trouble for you to do so).

It's so good to be able to it gathered together and shared around, even if it does come late in the day.

no worries, should I ever receive a reply, I have no problem sharing

assuming I can find some way of importing it into a post, I wouldn't put it past them to be "helpful" and send me a pdf containing scanned images of a document the length of war and peace just so that it can't be cut and pasted, I was lucky the first response was only a couple of pages so typing it out wasn't that much of a chore

FurorTeutonicus wrote:

Hello.

I don't know if this is exactly the correct thread, but I saw this today, which gave me one of those "I told you so!" moments;

Quote:

ONS officials have already begun preparing a replacement system should the 2011 census fail and prove to be the last.
They have approached private information holders including stores that run clubcard schemes to see if they will help.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1Hc5trkqw

So. "Club cards" are just "an innocent way of helping you shop" are they? :roll:

pity, I haven't got any club cards really, isn't it :wink:

KC

Guest · **Posted:** Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:57:28 +0000

If they send you a pdf don't worry, pdf files can be edited, or the relevant parts screengrabbed, to save you typing. Info providers can be awkward but they can't prevent all the shortcuts.

I noticed that the FOI request earlier in the thread (by Andrew Watson) has passed the time limit, which means that a complaint can be lodged directly with the ICO now, i.e. no need to give the ONS a chance to do an internal review about exceeding the time limit.

If it's placed on the ICO's files now then the public can refer to it at any point in the future, which could be very useful indeed.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:07:07 +0000

well they haven't got back to me yet, I'm guessing they have no intention of doing so

any suggestions on what I should do now ?

or does someone else want to chase them ?

KC

Guy Herbert · **Posted:** Fri, 22 Apr 2011 07:09:30 +0000

FurorTeutonicus wrote:

Hello.

I don't know if this is exactly the correct thread, but I saw this today, which gave me one of those "I told you so!" moments;

Quote:

ONS officials have already begun preparing a replacement system should the 2011 census fail and prove to be the last.
They have approached private information holders including stores that run clubcard schemes to see if they will help.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1Hc5trkqw

So. "Club cards" are just "an innocent way of helping you shop" are they? :roll:

I'm inclined to think this is just spreading FUD. You could get useful metrics good enough for government planning services (and much better than the ONS currently provides, because immediate and cheap) by buying aggregate information, not raw data, from commercial sources. However the ONS is not interested in doing this - it would not be statistically 'clean', and, more important from its point of view, it would demonstrate the ONS is redundant.

One has to realise that the ONS is now embarked on a campaign to save the census, which has been successful many times before. Indeed the nearly doubled size of the operation this time is part of that self-preservation exercise: 2001 was terribly embarrassing, what with Jedi and missing millions, and all those young educated central European imigrants pouring in and screwing up the expensively constructed demographic trend lines. Hence the much heavier enforcement. Hence the leap above trend in new questions and more data-structure to create new data sets that might be 'lost' if it were cancelled.

There has thus been a deliberate obtuseness in the way officials have understood suggestions by people like NO2ID that the ostensible purpose of providing planning information could be served by extracting information from other sources. This has been *instrumentally* misunderstood as requiring government to get its hands on more personal data and to match and fit it to existing models, with three aims:
(1) to try to make us look stupid by setting up a straw man - "you say you want to preserve privacy, but what you ask for would damage privacy" (though it is NOT what we are asking for) - the core rationale of the Mail story;
(2) as a fall back, to ensure that cancelling the census would mean that "to ensure statistical validity" (NOT actually necessary if the aim is the broad steering requirements of practical government steering rather than quasi-scientific measurement of abstract entities) the ONS would actually have much more work for statisticians and data-processors, if less for doorstep collectors; and
(3) to discourage ministers from changing anything by making it ever so much more complicated to do that than to leave things alone.

The creation of UK Statistics as a non-ministerial department by the Statistics and Registration Services Act - which was done ostensibly because of some fairly trivial tactical abuse by the Blair government of ministerial access to draft statistics - has been an enormous help to the ONS in pursuing its own interests like this.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu, 12 May 2011 17:53:29 +0000

lol It says on the front of the form: "Your personal information is protected by Law. It will remain confidential for 100 years". And that is from Glen himself. Glen is going to get the Police to guard your personal information for 100 years; what more do you people want?

Guest · **Posted:** Mon, 16 May 2011 08:06:57 +0000

Thanks for the loyalty card info
I am going off to cancel mine now!

NO2ID

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