NO2ID

Hi everyone,

Looking for some advice,

My childs school, St Marys, Southend on Sea recently announced that they were going to introduce a fingerprint system for library books.

Naturally I objected, and sent the school a letter clearly stating that I was withdrawing consent for my children to be fingerprinted.

Ny Oldest son, 8, has just told me that he was taken to he library yesterday, and asked to give a fingerprint, when he refused as I'd told him to do, he was browbeaten into it by a combination of the school librarian and headmistress standing overhim untill he did as they wanted.

What can I do now to force them to delete the data?

Mat

Ask the school head why your express wishes have not been followed. Do this in a calm and measured way. Even though your child was probably both very confused and very distressed by the incident, it is in your interests to remain calm at all times. Ask them to delete the data and give you a written confirmation that they have done so.

Then get in touch with the local press (whether the school agrees to delete the data or not) calling into question the methods used to coerce the child. If you have a copy of the letter, all the better.

Get in touch with both your councillor and MP (attending a surgery is best) highlighting the situation describing you and your and child's subsequent distress.

I really do sympathise; just imagine what the next generation's future will be like if they are being bullied by authority at the age of eight. Will they have tasers at ID card interrogations for dissidents?

Good luck.

This really is a sad situation that is being repeated up and down the country. I have a friend whose children were banned from school trips until he consented to their prints being taken. It really is very sinister the way the schools react to dissent with what appears to be a set procedure.

I too echo the advice given by Devilled Advocat. Take this further and do it quickly. Your childs school has clearly flouted government guidelines on this matter.

How easy it is to bully an eight year old! How powerful they must feel. Please report your progress on this forum, also contact the Leave Them KIds Alone website for advice.

I heartily agree. Suggest an alternative, maybe something religious, that people would react to, like forcing a Jewish / Muslim 8 year old to eat a pork sausage, expressly against the wishes of a parent (obviously), in order to use the canteen. Potential for frothing-at-the-mouth responses from the readership interests editors of local rags as it can easily increase take-up.

Thanks for the replies!

Quick update, my wife went into the school office today, and asked to see the head, who of course was "unavailable", but she did manage to talk to the librarian, who claims that he was fingerprinted "by mistake" and that they do have a seperate system in place for children to opt out.

I fail to see how it's possible to mistakenly fingerprint a child who has clearly told you "My dad told me he doesn't want me to do this"

So I will be following up with a letter to the head on Monday, demanding written confirmation of full deletion of his data and an apology to my son for invading his privacy.

At this stage I'm not going to go further than the head, but if I don't get what I ask for then I'm going to let loose with a full written complaint to all the school governors, the LEA, MP council and both local newspapers.

Mat

Typical. They go into denial mode when challenged, denying any wrongdoing. That is all part of the Kafka, believe me. I would suggest that yourself and your wife meet the Head together.


It may be an idea to contact the Governors anyway but it seems that you are following the right course, keep it calm initially and only call in the big guns if unable to get a satisfactory response from the head.

In my day school heads were benign but respected and School Librarians were almost invisble. How things have changed.

If in doubt go right to to the top of any administration and demand only written replies to all of your enquires.

Be very sure get something in writing off the school as without it its their word against yours.

I would advise also taking along a witness to any meetings you goto, a lawyer would be best if you know any but any 3rd party would be good. Do not let the 3rd party be someone connected to the school.

The same school as Mat and the same happened to two of the three children I have at St Marys..

Im livid as is my hubby.

My yr 6 daughter was simply told to put her thumb 'in there' to get a book out.

My yr 1 son was told to 'pop your thumb in' and that was that... he was REALLy worried when he got home about what had happened poor thing.

I have told my reception son to refuse and tell them to call Mama as he doesn't want a bad thing happening to him.

I wrote a letter to the school today demanding ALL data is removed from the system and I am sent a copy of the screen confirming this has been done and NOT to touch my reception son.

I wonder if they will comply? People on a forum I run for Mothers Goddess Mums are all up in arms about this... How dare they make us opt out... surely it should be an opt in situation??

Very good advice!

Oops sorry the above post was me!!

Will register!! lol

I agree with some of the posters. See the head of the school, go to the press and demand some answers.

Lots of people think where they here this kind of treatment as just been conspiricy theories, but some of them are slowly taking place. The next thing will be forced vaccinations which is taking place in some states of the US.

It is your right to refuse, and if i'm not mistaken there is some law against forcing your child to have fingerprints taken.

We are being treat as though we are criminals, and made to believe it is for a better future. This is absolute rubbish.

There is lots of info out there on the net about forced finger prints and vaccinations. Not just on concspiricy sites. Switch the telly off and do the homework yoursleves instead of being spoon fed this BS we see everyday.

Well I got a reply from the head today, confirming that my sons details have been removed from the system. No hint of an apology to it though!

Does also go on to say that she felt my complaint was serious enough to need refering to the Governors, so I'll wait and see if anything comes of that!

Mat

You wont get anything out of the govenors who are there these days only to rubber stamp whatever decisions the head teacher makes.

If it were me I'd demand an apology out of them and if one wasnt forth coming for their approach to this whole matter (ie the forced taking of the prints in the first place) I'd go about shaming them into it.

Just keep an eye on how the school treat your kids from now on too, it would be very good and wise indeed for your children not to require displine from the school in the form of detentions etc or you can bet that this will be dragged out as a reason for heavy handed punishments.

Keep pressing for a full written apology, your child was fingerprinted despite your clear written wishes.

It might also be a good idea for your child to discretely try to use the biometric scanners to see if his prints have really been deleted, you both may be surprised at the result.

I would definitely get confirmation that they have removed his prints - in writing... you would be surprised at just what they'll tell you in comparison to the actual truth.
My local council has just introduced a 'biometric cashless catering system' in my childrens high school.. needless to say i am furious and have been speaking to the local press, the council and the school...
anyway my point is that when i initially contacted the school i was told that there was no consultation except for with the board of governers. BUT when the local press got involved, this has suddenly become a democratic process that involved the pta, parent focus groups and such... i have yet to meet ONE person who was told... i have even been contacted by other councillors in the area to say that they are totally in the dark about this...
so... DON'T BELIVE A WORD YOU ARE TOLD... demand written confirmation of everything... in order for your child's data to be removed from that system the school will have had to call in a data clearance specialist... this is not as easy as just pressing 'delete' tell them that you want a report/ receipt/ proof from a fully qualified specialist who agrees that this has been done... the data protection act actually states that all data like this must be removed in this way...
good luck! and don't take no for an answer..

We had a similar experience:
Our children were fingerprinted without our knowledge (or consent, obviously)
My concern now is that, after raising the issue with the head, she dug her heels in and referred my letters up to the governors.

The problem that effects all of us on this forum is that my demand to have my children's details 'destroyed' (to use the term in the Information Commissioner's guidelines) has been met with a refusal.
The governors claim to have taken advice from Buckinghamshire's Data Protection Officer, who has said the data doesn't need to be removed from the hard drive.

Obviously I will be contesting this bizarre interpretation of 'destroy'.

If allowed to stand this would be a troubling precedent.

For more please come to http://www.humanzee.org read their letter and offer advice.
Also help to cost the biometrics companies money!

If I were you, I would demand to see your sons records under the Fredom Of Information Act to make sure they have removed him from the system. Also I would take it further and to see if the Head can be repremanded. Good for you for fighting for your civil liberties. WELL DONE! Go to my website Totalga to see "Common Purpose". This will interest you.

Not the Freedom If Information Act: surely you mean the Data Protection Act?

No, it is a request for information held about you or those in your care. DPA is to disallow your information being passed on to a third party. FOI is to gain access to information held about you or information that affects you or your consitutional rights.

You are mistaken. The Data Protection Act provides for people to make Data Subject Access Requests, through which they can see information held about them. The Freedom of Information Act specifically excludes provision of personal data.

Data Protection Act
Freedom of Information Act

Thanks Geraint: I thought I was losing it in the morass of legislation

Forgot to reply!!

Got a very short letter saying basically they have removed my children from the system... no appology and no proof [which I had asked for].

Matt,

are there many people from the school objecting to this or just us two?

There are a lot of parents objecting up and down the country and behind the scenes - leavethemkidsalone

I got a letter today basically making out I had lied about how they had obtained my childrens prints.

they said they had very gently and calmly asked my son how the situation was and his story was different from mine... they also said that they had asked my son "why is mummy upset about this" and he answered that he didn't know.

Apparently they have witness's to say my account of what happned [which is what my son told me] is different to theirs.

I am appallled that the question "why is mummy upset about this" was even put to my child without asking myself first!!

They will no doubt make him feel like Mummy has no right to be upset, that he caused a fuss and shouldn't have told me anything [as he didnt tell me anyone had asked about me]

Apparently there is only a "very small group" of parents whos children are not on the system for finger printing and I have totally upset the female who took the prints by my 'allegations'

I'm gob smacked!! perhaps I should find the children of the govenors and quizz their children about how mummy and daddy feel?

As for allegations.... it has been alleged in this letter that i am a liar!!!

I'm upset.