NO2ID

The cancellation by the government of existing national identity cards before their expiry date is in breach of the following European legislation:

Directive 2004/38/EC
CHAPTER II RIGHT OF EXIT AND ENTRY
Article 4 Right of exit
3. Member States shall, acting in accordance with their laws, issue to their own nationals, and renew, an identity card or passport stating their nationality.

The requirement that member states must renew ID cards implies that they may not be cancelled.

You ignored the ".. . or passport". If the UK issues passports (and it does), that would seem to satisfy the Directive you cite.

If you want to bet that the ID card scheme now won't be canceled, I'd be happy to take your money.

"in accordance with their laws,issue to their own nationals, an identity card OR PASSPORT"

You can't renew an ID card by issuing a passport. It's not a renewal of the same document but the issuance of a different product.

Yes, if the said 'ID Card' is still extant as a legal entity at the time of renewal. If, in the mean time, it has been abolished the obligation to renew no longer stands.

Plus, as already noted, a passport serves the same function so effectively carries on any requirement to maintain a legally authorised document for the purpose of crossing national borders.

I'm sure many of us would look forward to the entertainment of the EC trying to tell the government that abolishing ID cards is illegal.

bearing in mind that everyone with an ID card had a passport at the time they applied for the card, if it's expired then they can renew it, and that the card ran in parallel with a passport and further that I don't see any EU legislation that says one is favoured over the other as long as one option is still available I don't see the EU having any problem with us getting rid of the other

and given that if the UK were getting rid of passports in favour of ID cards no one would be citing EU regs at us I call troll on the OP

nice try, no cigar

The Guest should've borne in mind that old army saying before they applied for an ID card, "Never Volunteer!"

They were mugs for applying for one before the cards became compulsory so it is only proper that as mugs, they lose their money when the cards are renderd invalid.

Once bitten, twice shy next time?

It is clear that the planned cancellation of current travel documents has not been properly planned. Take the example of a British citizen who leaves the UK to work on a six-month contract in a Schengen country. Leaving his passport safely locked away at home in the UK, he travels out using his ID card, but when he returns six months later, he finds that, on instruction of the British government, his unexpired travel document is suddenly not accepted during Schengen exit controls, not accepted by the airline and not accepted by UK Border Control. This is an appalling way for the government to treat its citizens. This scenario, which is very likely and not far-fetched, proves that the planned cancellation of travel documents is contrary to the right to free movement of persons throughout the European Union.

I think you are grasping at straws here. At an abstract level of simple legalism you may be correct, but that is not the real world. In practice such `anomalies' and `cock-ups' occur all the time. If they are missed in the first instance they may only subsequently come to light when someone decides to make an issue out of them for political or monetary reasons. In practice such issues are usually dealt with entirely pragmatically, and the law tidied up retrospectively.

This is true and it must also be pointed out that should a unicorn of psychedelic hues carry him away to the far side of the moon sprinkling gold dust all awhile from its radiant wings then that too has not been taken into account.

Pah!! Politicians eh! What do they know?

Justin.

1) it's all within the EU
2) Schengen exit control will not prevent someone leaving without good reason - a card/passport only needs to be valid for entry, not exit
3) you are returning to the UK and even an expired passport or ID card should be sufficient to establish your citizenship and they have to let you in
4) border/passport control at UK entry points has the fancy machinery to check that the card is real
5) as each card is returned or 'declared lost' or acknowleged as no longer valid, details can be removed from the database so it's not as if they won't have a vague idea as to how many and which ones are still 'out there'
6) even if all that e-bordery stuff only records the number of the passport or ID card on the way out, then guess what, they will have a list of cards that are still 'out there'
7) when people come back with their now-invalid ID cards they will be told they must turn them in and if they want to travel abroad they will need to get a passport

People returning from abroad with zombified cards can easily be handled on an exceptional basis, no drama required.

I don't imagine that this hypothetical problem would actually cause anyone real difficulties. But if so, British embassies and consulates can provide emergency travel documents to British citizens who get stranded abroad
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/passports1/

So why not just continue honouring the cards officially?

What about the airline refusing boarding to the holder of a British ID card holder who left the UK when it was valid but returned when it had been cancelled prematurely? He won't even get to the UK because of this governmental blunder, which is contrary to the principle of free movement of people within the EU.

So you tell the airlines they are required to accept these cards for the return journeys.

And even if the cards were all invalidated and subsequently refused at the various borders, this would still not be a violation of any EU Directive because EU citizens will still have the right of travel. It's just that the cardholders will have a slight hiccup in being able to prove their EU citizenship.

You can tell an airline whatever you like, but it still won't get you on the plane. The airline will be following instructions from the Home Office.

Which will be the ones telling them they are required to accept the cards.

Enough of your trolling now.

So you think that the Home Office will instruct airlines to continue accepting UK ID cards for embarkation to UK-bound flights after the cards have been cancelled? I think not.

Then cancel all cards with the exception of those still required for return journeys.

Or even get cunning with it and declare all UK ID cards invalid for use within the UK - the border is not classed as being within the UK so that could work.

UK ID cards = illegal in the UK. I like that one.

Case closed.

Mr Blunkett, PLEASE give it up now.

Yes, retain them as valid travel documents - fine!

There might be a question of whether the cards should be confiscated at the border, or the holder issued with a Notice requiring the card to be surrendered within a reasonable time (so they can replace their passport if it expired while they were away). This probably isn't necessary though - there aren't that many out there, and it's not as if the holders will be unaware of the card's status as they will all have been notified (e.g. at the border).

Sounds like this is the simplest answer in relation to the public implementation side of it.

1) UK ID cards illegal to use in the UK
- therefore no official use especially by government departments, all cardholders notified that they should surrender their card within a reasonable time

2) Make it an offence for retailers etc to have it listed as a valid ID option
2a) Enforce rigorously, with just enough pain to make it worth people changing any posters they have (permanent marker acceptable)
- no need to overdo it, we just want the things out of circulation, if (3) below not added, nothing to stop cardholders asking and retailers accepting, just make it the seedy 'under the counter' option

3) (not sure this is really necessary or even wise) Make it an offence to attempt to use it
3a) Minimal enforcement, tiny civil penalties, so it's not worth pursuing
- partly for the die-hards who ignore all the letters and Notices, partly so people can still go out on the lash (at their own risk) and establishments can still accept it without penalty

We don't want to be creating offences unnecessarily, because you can never guarantee the degree of enforcement - so it would probably be sensible to skip item 3. And if all cardholders have been notified as to the card's status there are no grounds for complaint if it is refused.

Doctor_Wibble, what would all your above ideas achieve? They seem rather vindictive against ID card holders for no reason that benefits either the government or the public. Why do you object so much to existing ID card holders continuing to use the card until their expiry date?

Simply because it is too expensive to maintain the infrastructure to support their use.

Justin.

What is so expensive? Gibraltar manages to maintain validity of around 25,000 ID cards issued to British citizens without great cost. What's so costly about all EEA countries (including the UK) continuing to accept ID cards issued in the UK?