NO2ID

I have an opportunity to meet Martin Salter MP for Reading West tomorrow night. He has been campaigning for ID cards and the NIR for sometime and has spoken in parliament several times.

Any help for topics I should discuss with him would be most welcome as I am new to this sort of thing.

if he's been campaigning for for some time it is unlikely that anything you can say or do will change his views on the matter.

All you can achieve is to make clear your objections and attempt to get him to explain his stance.

Yes, I've pretty much realised that most New Labour MP's are incapable of seeing any oppinion other than their own. Maybe he has plans to assimilate me?

This is an issue on which there is little or no chance of convincing anyone who has already made a decision on the validity of the opposing argument. Only those who are undecided or unaware of the issues are likely to be won over.

And remember the Government will spend millions on convincing the general public that anyone who opposes the scheme is:-

* A fraudster
* A terrorist
* A "benefit scrounger"
* An illegal immigrant
or
* A paedophile

I think that's a little pessimistic. No-one in their right minds could support this Bill. It's merely a question of getting them to let go of their affiliations and debate the pros (virtually none) & cons (immense).

I'd suggest remaining calm: tell him it's a complex issue and that you don't expect him to change his mind today, merely that he'll be open minded enough to see alternative views.

I presume GBFNJ knows what Salter's support is based on:
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id ... 526#g303.2

He describes himself as a libertarian and dedicated to his constituents. Should be a piece of cake.

I'd start by countering his arguments, you can demolish the identity theft one with this document:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/25 ... fraud_con/

Then ask him on what basis he would vote. Get him to emphasise that he'll vote for the benefit of his constituents. Then start to talk about the costs & the loss of freedom.

Has the Government yet released all documents relating to the Reading Trial?

There's a document here which has good counter-arguments:
http://www.no2id.net/downloads/print/NO ... N_text.pdf

Ask your friends if you can practice convincing them.

thanks davegould, that information is very useful

Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that you will convince him that ID cards are a problem - he is very strongly in favour of them.

Perhaps the best approach would be to try to convince him that, whether or not ID cards are a good idea, this scheme is not. The legislation has been written before the system specifications, the technology upon which it will rely has not yet been developed and the costs are utterly uncontrolled.

In the article that I linked to, he mentions that records such as tax, health, etc. will not be recorded on the NIR. Perhaps you could point out to him that the NIR will act as an index that basically allows other government databases to be cross-correlated at will (by authorised or unauthorised users).

1. Ask him if he has read the LSE report on ID cards;

2. Ask him how he squares the statement in the ID Cards Bill to the effect that it is compliant with the Human Rights Act with the report, published today, by the European Commissioner on Human Rights to the effect that to be compliant with Article 8 (right to privacy) the card (and by implication its backing database) should only hold the minimum necessary information (name, date and place of birth, sex, and possibly a biometric). Then remind him that the bill provides for over 50 categories of information to be entered on the database.....

You could emphasise that the government has no mandate based on 37% of the vote (and coming second in England). Make sure he knows that he will be responsible for when the Bill fails if he votes for it, and that his job is NOT to vote with the government but to represent his constituents based on reading all available facts and understanding the implications.

Make sure you are very polite, non-confontational and is possible take details to back up your major arguments which you can give to him. If you rant and get confrontational you will only entrench and justify his position further. Act like an intelligent and concerned citizen which i'm sure you are. Try to identify logical fallacies in his argument and call him on them, but not in an arrogant way.

Explain how this legislation will be the founding stone of a totalitarian state and that this and the vastness of the scheme is unprecedented. Don't expect to change his opinion completely but emphasise that supporting ID cards is not the same as blindly supporting this Bill, which goes much further. Mention that there are no real safeguards and that surely if this was about protecting us there would be strong safeguards and a strict limit on the information and uses of the card. The home secretary can amend data required and the scope of the card easily with this legislation.

Good luck.

GBFNJ, I am interested as to how your meeting with Mr Salter MP went...

Just saw Mr Salter on BBC News 24. Seems like a clone of Blair. His belief in ID Cards is tied to his ego.

Happily for Mr Salter, he has now been given "the first step on the ministerial ladder" (http://www.getreading.co.uk/story.asp?intid=12274) . Perhaps this his reward for loyally backing The Party's objectives no matter what?

He now has a dossier open on the MP forum : http://www.no2id.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1292