NO2ID

I have read that people that do not go on the database, will not be permitted to renew a passport. Getting a second passport from another country seems an option.I have searched the net and found many schemes to do the above. Nearly all of which seem dodgy. (I don't like the idea of sending money through a middleman for a Mozambique passport). Is there an easy way of doing this? Which countries are best? How does one start?

You need to be really careful about this. Strange passports can come with strange obligations, like national service. Your British passport will not exempt you! Were any of your grandparents from nice EU countries, perhaps? That might give you somewhere to start.

If it was so easy for ten thousand "false" passports to be obtained, how easy would it be for me to get one? Does anyone dare try in the interests of research?

This might be of interest to you. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Passport-Report ... 090661919X

I have seen this book before. In a word, you either have to have ancestors in another country to claim a second citizenship or have loads, and I means loads of money to ÒbuyÓ one. There are no other options. Note that buy having a second citizenship you can be deported from the UK to that country if such need arises for the government, e.g on terrorism charges.

In addition, most countries do not allow dual nationality and will only grant a citizenship once the UK one is denounced.

Hello Prole,
I believe that the issue in itself is, at least from the official point of view a dodgy one. Who needs a second passport and for what purpose? As for getting a passport in a procedure, not being present to press the issue oneself makes a middleman a must have. It lies in the nature of the matter, or am I wrong?

I found some here, here or ptshamrock.com the later site funnilly enough says beware of swindlers, names them (?) and then carries on to sell its program to you. But as I said before there is nothing which safes you from sending money ahead of delivery when you yourself are not on site to do the stuff yourself. Myself has not found anything yet to jump on it. How about you?

If you want to get a legal passport from a new country you should definitely go there and expect to spend at least a month or two (longer the better) learn the basics of the language etc. It might be useful to use middlemen, but be sure you personally receive your passport directly in person from the relevant government office. Do not trust offers for "mail order passports".

The usual procedure is to establish official residence first then after 1-3 years you apply for naturalization. Countries known to be liberal in this regard right now include Dominican Republic and Paraguay. Advantage of Paraguay is you don't need a visa to travel most places in Europe, whereas DR you do. However DR is somewhat easier to get to with plenty of cheap direct flights from UK. So it all depends.

Expect to spend at least 15-20K on legal fees, travel expenses etc before you are finished. Passports of course were designed for travel, but changing citizenship can also have significant tax advantages. The most obvious one for British citizens is that by giving up UK residence you can legally avoid capital gains tax.

JBG

-------------------------
Joe B. Gonzalez
International Privacy Trustee
www.byebyebigbrother.com

Hi Abby. its not a matter of needing a second passport. Rather a way of continuing to be able to travel abroad if a UK passport is refused renewal, due to the fact that one refused to supply biometric data, or attend an interrogation centre.

what about obtaining a second citizenship through dodgy methods. theres gotta be some countries in the eu that you can bribe someone or agencies that charge money and get corrupt officials to make u a passport. i know alot of countries allow descendants of that country to apply for citizenship and i would imagine that for the right dollar amount, that you can hand them fake documents and pay them to look the other way and approve the app. same thing goes for marriages, you can fake the whole thing and in the end, you can bribe whoever is reviewing your application to look the other way and approve the marriage.

Hello,
yes I do agree the need of the government to control seems to take over their brains. That is one of the reasons I 'm looking around if there could be something that can be done. Sure, traveling to the country of origen (passport) is recommendable, but who in heaven has that kind of time on hand?

I almost settled on one provider but so far I can see a bit of waiting is time that is not that badly spend. After all what is the rush? And dodgy it'll be anyway,won't it? We are asking for it, so it'll be hard for the other party to comply with dead lines and such. Even going there does not take away the risk of ending up with someone who's just robbing you. If the risk is smaller not using a mail order service, I honestly can't tell.
kind regards
abby

HEY! Are you talking about our beloved UK passports?! Available at a pub near you right now...just wait till the ID cards come out

My mother reverted to her original Austrian citizenship in order to buy property theie (that was the law then). She was told she had to renounce her British citizenship. The immigration office in the UK laughed gently and said she could renounce it all she liked, she was still a British citizen.

In effect, they obviously ignore such statements, so renounce away if you have to.

It is possible to get a 2nd UK passport.

I've been looking into this as well. I'm looking to leave the UK before ID cards come in, and waiting times for naturalisation in some places are longer than it will take for some passports to run out. Mine has another 8 years on it (provided they don't rescind it), but


Here is what I've found out online:

1) there are two caribbean countries (Dominica - not to be confused with Dominican Republic - and St Kitts and Nevis) which offer legal, full-scale second citizenships to non-residents for money. But they charge huge amounts, i.e. hundreds of thousands of pounds, demand ID details such as fingerprints, and might refuse on grounds such as criminal record.

2) "dodgy" second passports usually come from direct bribes to officials (police etc) in countries of origin to fill someone's details into a blank place on the passports register. These cost a lot less, a few thousand at most, but might fail at the first border encountered.

3) there are various online firms offering citizenships in various countries for amounts in the region of £20,000. Expensive, and hard to tell if they're as dodgy as group 2. But, a great many countries have "discretionary" powers to grant citizenship to people meeting none of the official criteria.

4) it is possible to naturalise in a number of the more liberal EU countries after 5 or 6 years of residence.

Important things to be aware of:

Having a passport doesn't guarantee being able to move around freely. Non-EU nationals often need visas or permits to travel to, or in, the EU for example. If looking to travel outside the EU, rules will vary between different places. EU passports should guarantee travel within the EU.

On some of the other points raised:

Obligations of citizenship:
Probably not something to worry about, EXCEPT for national service in which case check the maximum age and whether alternative service exists. One usually has to be resident to be eligible for national service too I think. Other kinds of obligations of citizenship are unlikely to apply outside the country, but there are a few exceptions - America claims to be able to charge even NON-citizens for acts outside the country which impact on America (a pretty wide range including aiding terrorism, hacking, fraud), and Germany files charges for Holocaust denial by German citizens outside the country - these are the only examples I'm aware of. In a case such as Mozambique, first of all it is unlikely that weak peripheral societies would impose obligations interfering with outsiders buying passports, and secondly if they did, the laws in question would be unactionable in most of the world as the country most likely does not have extradition treaties and may even be listed as unsafe to send people to.

Losing British citizenship:
The British state already claims a power to strip citizens of citizenship for terrorism, which is NOT limited to people with dual or renounced citizenships, so this is not really a risk.

Major question on my part:

If I was to migrate to an EU country where I can't naturalise before my current UK passport runs out - would I be at risk of deportation since they know from the passport that I'm an EU citizen, and could I avoid this by using the current passport to obtain residence documents BEFORE it expires?

If you really want one it seems possible legally to obtain Panamanian residency by various forms of investment, eventually leading to a passport. As I read it you invest US$80,000, obtain immediate residency and a passport after five years.

Probably not of interest to the majority of people. http://www.panamalaw.org/live_and_retire_in_panama.html

1. The "easiest" way is probably to take up residency in another EU country and after 5 years or so apply to become a citizen of the country. Ideally, pick one that allows dual citizenship. That way you'll have the other passport before your UK one expires. After that, you won't need to renew your British UK one, just keep renewing the other one. (But don't most EU countries require an ID card? )

2. Many countries have "investment" immigration schemes where if you ivest a certain amount, often in the region of £100k or more, you get a residency permit, then after 5 or so years you can apply for citizenship. Expensive.

3. If you have grandparents from other countries, its worth checking out.
Some countries in eastern Europe and some other small countries are all too happy to bring "overseas" offspring back into the fold. Again, check whether dual citizenship is allowed, national service etc.

Hope this helps.

Yes it is, but only if you have a valid 'need'. I travel to Africa monthly as do my colleagues and we all carry 2 UK passports in the event 1 gets seized, or visas take too long. Actually my boss has 3 as they forgot to cancel the one he was replacing due to the pages all being filled up. I'll be going for a 3rd soon as I have 1 page laft blank and they don't like having nowhere to stamp...

I got my 2nd UK PP from the BHC down here in 3 days flat, no interviews and a photo taken on a street corner....